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Posted by Edgar on July 17, 2007, 11:35 am
>
>>> "Pat"> wrote
>>>> We tried the "all private sector" approach before and found it
>>>> didn't work as well as we had hoped.
>>>
>>> It worked very well, when the gov't was not involved with it.
>>> My mom and dad somehow managed to raise 5 kids to adulthood without
>>> health insurance on them and only had one doctor the whole time.
>>> One doctor.
>>> He did everything from birthing babies to childhood innoculations,
>>> rabies shots, set bones, yanked tonsils, sewed stitches, the whole 9
>>> yards. And through all of it my dad paid out of pocket for the stuff
>>> on the spot. My dad was a self employed carpenter and my mom was a
>>> stay at home. This was in a small town in PA, circa 50's & 60's.
>>>
>>> Look what you have now.
>>> And you call this better?
>>>
>>
>> Hmm I wonder how well a black person was taken care of back in the
>> 50s.
>
> You're mixing the issues.
>
> Don is not saying that "equal access to healthcare is bad", he is saying
> that "the forceable insertion of HMO and gov.t bureaucracies into teh
> doctor-patient relationship is bad".
>
> Prejudice (be it racial or other) is/was in no way eliminated just
> because gov.t got involved in health care.
>
>
>> Feel free to live back then if you like with blinders and
>> everything if need be. I'm sure me with my brown skin I would have
>> all the opportunities you had back then, so why wouldn't I want to
>> live in such a WONDERFUL era?
>
> But you're mixing two different points. This is not about "turning back
> the clock across the board", this i sabout reducing bureaucratic waste,
> and getting teh middlemen out from between health care providers, and
> health care recipients.
>
I stand by my point, GOVERNMENT (not beauracracy) has worked towards (and is
bound by) equality, and people have fought long and hard to get that
equality which has not come easy. To say that things were better back then
because the government was not involved ignores the thousands of people who
were NOT getting the same level of care because of inequality. If we have
to bring others down so that others may FINALLY be equal, so be it. Since
then we should have been working on bringing everyone back up, but instead
inequality continues. I agree 100% with reducing bureaucratic waste but
that waste is not the same as what the govenrment should be.
> Regardelss of your color (or religion or gender or sexual preference or
> size or whatever), the fact is that currently, if your physician
> determines you should have, oh, a colonoscopy or a mammogram, there is a
> bureuacracy acting as a gatekeeper standing between you, and what your
> physician prescribes, and you either will or will not be *permitted* to
> follow the doctor's orders based upon a bunch of statistics and whatnot
> as interpreted by someone who quite likely lives a thousand miles away
> from you and your physician.
>
> And if you believe that bureaucracy is going to go to any effort to make
> sure that your case is not going to be judged inequitably, well......
>
You yourself are confusing the issue. Government is not the same as
bureaucratic (I always have trouble spelling that one). You can have one
without the other, and we should be working towards eliminating beauracracy.
I agree it is the worst thing about this government and something I feel
should be eliminated if we want to fix anything.
>
>>
>> Hmm if one person, among many, is delusional it makes sense that they
>> would think everyone else but them is.
>>
>
> I'm personally *sick* of all of this childish name-calling about who is
> or is not delusional. Good grief =>:-p
>
> EVERYBODY is "delusional" in one way or another. Get over it. What
> matters is (1) trying to get the facts and (2) trying to avoid trampling
> people's rights.
>
>
As long as Don is here, your going to keep getting "sick" of it. I only
resort to what is thrown at me. I've tried and tried with the level headed
discussion, but this is the only type of argument he seems to
understand...YOU get over it.
--
Edgar
--
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