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Posted by Chuck on July 3, 2007, 3:38 am
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>> >> >> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >> > Who's the editor of the alt.architecture group? It seems that
>> >> >> >> > people
>> >> >> >> > talk more about subjects having little to do with
>> >> >> >> > architecture.
>> >> >> >> > What
>> >> >> >> > kind of architecture is the group supposed to discuss? The
>> >> >> >> > design-
>> >> >> >> > oriented kind, or what?
>> >> >> >> > Here are some of the less than entralling subjects:
>>
>> >> >> >> > I buyed me sum tomato-basil hummus.
>> >> >> >> > Folk songs of the far right wing
>> >> >> >> > Hummus is simpler than even making donuts
>> >> >> >> > Genuine Money Earn Every day Internet jobs for all. Earn
>> >> >> >> > Unlimited
>> >> >> >> > income.
>>
>> >> >> >> > What?
>>
>> >> >> >> > To steer the discussion in some more meaningful way for
>> >> >> >> > architects,
>> >> >> >> > here's my contribution:
>>
>> >> >> >> > What is the difference between folk and vernacular
>> >> >> >> > architecture?
>> >> >> >> > Are
>> >> >> >> > McMansions our culture's new vernacular? Is everyone familiar
>> >> >> >> > with
>> >> >> >> > the term "McMansion?"
>>
>> >> >> >> > How has the "one world, one culture" reality affected the
>> >> >> >> > traditions
>> >> >> >> > of local communities?
>>
>> >> >> >> There is no "editor" for a newsgroup. I am the moderator. I
>> >> >> >> must
>> >> >> >> insist that you cease such attacks against the posters to this
>> >> >> >> newsgroup. It is ynwarranted. Hummus is a vernacular food and
>> >> >> >> addresses different cultures and their cooking traditions and
>> >> >> >> thereby
>> >> >> >> kitchen and restaurant design, folk songs often highlight a
>> >> >> >> buildings
>> >> >> >> acoustic properties, and income...well, I don't know what that
>> >> >> >> one's
>> >> >> >> about. Must have slipped by me.
>>
>> >> >> >> Please refrain from disruptive posting or your posts will be
>> >> >> >> deleted.
>>
>> >> >> >> Thank you
>>
>> >> >> >> Moderatus Unanimous- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> >> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> >> >> > OK- you're in charge... stretch it as thin as you must. Do you
>> >> >> > have
>> >> >> > any response from an architectural viewpoint to the second half
>> >> >> > of
>> >> >> > my
>> >> >> > post?
>>
>> >> >> I'll respond to your trad vs mod hook when you respond to my 2 hour
>> >> >> fire
>> >> >> rating question, how's that?
>>
>> >> >> You want to talk architecture? Here's your chance. Find me
>> >> >> something
>> >> >> for
>> >> >> these ducts other than concrete that can span 7 feet without
>> >> >> hanging.
>> >> >> --
>>
>> >> >> MichaelBwww.michaelbulatovich.ca-Hidequoted text -
>>
>> >> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> >> > Michael,
>>
>> >> > I don't know the ducts to which you refer, but I imagine that 7'
>> >> > isn't
>> >> > exactly best practice for spans of rated fire duct that can't be
>> >> > hung. My suggestion? A bridge made from heavy gauge steel studs
>> >> > and
>> >> > gwb. That's a guess without knowing what the heck you're talking
>> >> > about. Are you angry?
>>
>> >> Look up the recent post by me on the subject. Generic "steel studs and
>> >> GWB"
>> >> prescriptions will not suffice. This is architecture. Let's get
>> >> specific.
>>
>> >> I'm not angry. I am mildly annoyed by your complaining about the group
>> >> being
>> >> OT, while obviously having an enormous theoretical axe to grind. If
>> >> you
>> >> want
>> >> to promulgate your polemics, may I suggest that this isn't a very
>> >> effective
>> >> place to do it? Try a school. You're unlikely to convince anyone of
>> >> anything, and there's only 6 of us here anyway, and we all work in the
>> >> real
>> >> world. Besides, my favorite groups are almost all OT...- Hide quoted
>> >> text -
>>
>> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > OT? Who's grinding an axe?
>>
>> Some guy going by the moniker of "Grand Tradition". It's even in his
>> name.
>> Every post seems to be a pitch for traditional architecture. You're like
>> a
>> bible-thumper in a brothel. Settle down and have a drink.
>>
>> > I work for a living too, as an architect,
>> > so don't come at me with this "real world" sh*t. Or do!
>>
>> Then let's discuss things of mutual interest instead of chastising the
>> group
>> for having interests that don't dovetail with yours. (Note, the trad vs
>> mod
>> thing is 20 years tired for me.) Here's a story:
>>
>> In 1990 I'm working for a traditionalist outfit. They get an office
>> building
>> client somehow (they're not known for this sort of stuff). I start the
>> schematic design on the job. I drive around with the client as he points
>> out
>> buildings he likes. (He's very consistent: all sleek, green glass
>> curtainwall buildings with few if any mullions exposed.) I get it. Client
>> wants sleek, green glass building. I get to work on it.
>>
>> The firm hires a humorless prig from another traditionalist firm with
>> experience in this type of building. We're used to having fun at this
>> office. I can't work with the pretentious putz, and the firm is
>> obviously
>> going to implode within months as the Grand Recession approaches, so I
>> quit
>> to do some public sector work. The firm contracts by 80%. They can the
>> prig
>> along with most everybody else. I worked for two years solid in public
>> housing, doing mainly hirise stuff, and design my biggest building to
>> date.
>> All of it pragmatically modern.
>>
>> Years later I'm back talking to the partner, and see a rendering of the
>> most
>> dreadful, plodding, dark, heavy, traditional office building I've seen in
>> a
>> while. (Week-old, soy-soaked polenta, if not, plainly, a turd.) I ask
>> about
>> the building. It's unbuilt. (Surprise!) I ask how it got to look like
>> that
>> when the client was pretty clear about what he wanted. The partner frowns
>> at
>> me. "Don't ask" is the answer.
>>
>> There's a story about the world I live in. Now us about yours. Keep it
>> interesting...no polemics....if you can.
>> --
>>
>> MichaelBwww.michaelbulatovich.ca- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> So sue me for having an architectural preference! You have imagined
> me (I'm afraid) completely 180d from reality. I may have come on
> strong, but this IS an architectural newsgroup, supposedly.
>
> I have a similar story to yours, Michael, except that it involves the
> entirety of my formal education, which was Mod. Everything
> traditional I've learned about architecture, other than the
> historian's cut-and-dry time line of events, is a product of my
> personal study. I've seen cities go down the tubes due to glass box
> syndrome (GBS?), as I'm sure you have; and I've also witnessed the
> sorriest revival of traditional architecture since revivals started
> happening (in my opinion). It's not the brightest day for architects,
> and quite frankly, I keep running into architects who ultimately don't
> care, including some of my classmates from college.
>
> I sometimes ask them why they're so non-chalant, and they reply with
> the same stuff: "It's just my job." "The client made me do it."
> "What do you mean?" "I've got to put bread on the table." "Let's
> talk about something else."
>
> I am definitely an advocate for traditional architecture, but
> ultimately I advocate GOOD architecture. Putting bread on the table
> doesn't usually produce good work. To those who I know who make that
> claim, I tell them to pull away for a while and do something else that
> "puts bread on the table." Overall, I get it (I think). There are a
> lot of architects out there; and just like any other profession, there
> are those that actually love what they do and excel, then there are
> those who do it for other reasons, who usually do not find that
> magical mix of circumstances required to do really well. I'll readily
> admit I'm not the brainiest architect of the lot, but I do love my
> profession- and I feel like cities, towns, villages, and families all
> depend on architects to make the world as livable as it can be.
>
> Have you seen a new traditional building that exceeds the design
> success of a similar building erected 100 years ago? Have you seen a
> modern building that exceeds the design success of a similar building
> 80 years ago? I blame the laissez faire attitude of many architects
> today. I say get the f*ck off your asses and do something responsible
> next time someone wants to do something on the cheap!
>
> American culture being despised around the world? McAnything, let
> alone McMansions? Buildings designed to fail after 20 years?
> Disposable culture is dispicable to me- it's just irresponsible. And
> the world (or at least the first world) can see the horrible direction
> the US has taken culturally over the last century. And please believe
> me: I don't want to return to the 1920's. I want 2007 to be the best
> that the US has ever known. Who will paint our murals, sculpt our bas
> reliefs, and plan our gardens in such a way that guides us forward
> while giving us hindsight after the last of the master craftsmen are
> gone? Are we going to import everything from other countries,
> including craftsmen, to the extent that we have to start all over
> again?
>
> Enough for now. I've said too much already. Please proceed with the
> stoning and tarring and feathering.
>
Ahh, finally...
CID...
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