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Posted by Kris Krieger on July 5, 2008, 11:31 pm
>> om:
>>
>>
>>
>> >> s.c om:
>>
>>
>> >> >> > [...]
>> >> >> > I noted what you said below about it slitting under a nail
>> >> >> > gun, and nails tending to slip and fly off. Now I know ;)
>>
>> >> >> OTOH I'm a bit of a worry with a nail gun. Shot myself twice so
>> >> >> far, fortunately only with brads.
>>
>> >> >> > OTOH, maybe strapping...? As you noted, those websites (with
>> >> >> > the bamboo buildings) didn't seem to go into the joining
>> >> >> > methods.
>>
>> >> >> So I did a Google search - "joints in bamboo"
>>
>> >> >>http://www.emissionizero.net/Prospettive_-_Our_plans_for_the_futu
>> >> >>re_ -_
>> >> >> (ENG)_BAMBOO_JOINTS.html [messy link]
>> >> >> University of Florence - bamboo joint research
>>
>> >> >>http://www.staff.city.ac.uk/earthquakes/Bamboo/Bamboo.htm
>> >> >> Shows the whole process - Indian technique. City University
>> >> >> London. Some fairly heavy construction, eg reo stirrups
>> >> >> mortared into the voids, bamboo as permanent formwork.
>>
>> >> >>http://bambus.rwth-aachen.de/eng/fr_referate.html
>> >> >> University of Aachen. Several pdf files
>>
>> >> >> There's some fairly elaborate joints, but some that look
>> >> >> do-able, eg making the connectors out of short bits of
>> >> >> hardwood, stiffening the hollows where bolts go through, and if
>> >> >> in doubt - bog it. My kind of building :-)
>>
>> >> > I'm in BC canada, with lots of cheap excellent lumber
>> >> > that is easy to build with. We're currently shutting down
>> >> > saw mills cuz of the new housing construction down
>> >> > turn. In turn the tooling producers are shutting down.
>> >> > It will cost big bucks to get that whole operation back
>> >> > up.
>>
>> >> > Don't know why you'd fart around with bamboo when
>> >> > that is happening.
>>
>> >> (1) becasue I'm generally interested, as I mentioned, in modern
>> >> adaptations of ancient materials and techniques (including things
>> >> like passive cooling);
>> >> (2) not everyone has cheap lumber readily available - bamboo will
>> >> grow pretty much anywhere (some types like a lot fo water, others
>> >> grow where it's surprisingly dry) and, being a species of grass,
>> >> it tends to grow rapidly, so for many areas, it might be a viable
>> >> alternative to wood, growing readily where suitable lumber trees
>> >> do not.
>>
>> > If oriental genius has yet to make bamboo a practical
>> > building material I doubt we can.
>>
>> Why?? Both their circumstances, and their perspectives, are
>> different. If you only do things becaue "that's how they've always
>> been done", you'll never discover anything, or create anything new.
>> Invention is not merely having information or even technical know-how
>> - people who've made significant discoveries typically have all the
>> same info as everyone else, but they look at that info from a new
>> perspective, with a creative mindset (and ignore the naysayers who
>> claim that thsi or that "can't be done, or is "a waste of time"
>> becasue one "should" do things the same way "they've always been
>> done" - which makes no sense at all, sonce *someone* had to come up
>> with those older methodologies in the first place, IOW, *invent
>> somethign new*). Fleming didn't discover penicillin merely because
>> he was the only person to ever see a mold contaminate a Petrie dish
>> and kill the bacterial culture on it - rather, he was the first peron
>> to *pursue the reason*, the first to look at is as more than merely
>> an error to be discarded; same with Kekule and the discovery of the
>> hexagonal carbon ring. And so on. A large part of invention and
>> creativity is to realize that there is a difference between
>> reinventing the wheel, and looking at the wheel from a new
>> perspective that adapts/expands it's useage to something new.
>>
>> Pathetically, for every person who askes "what if...?", there are at
>> least 100 naysayers who will call said person an idiot =>:-p
>
> Careful, no one is calling anyone an "idiot", let's not
> go there.
I didn't mean to imply that was the case, just that this is a phemonenon
I've come across a lot through the years. It's just something that can
be a deterrent for some folks, and an annoyance to those of us who are
more pighead...OOPS!, *determined*, yeah, that's what I meant to say,
determined...! <L!>
> Check this out,
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fosbury_Flop
> When I 1st saw that my eyes nearly popped out of
> my head! A guy invents a new way of jumping, after
> people have been jumping for 1000's of years, cuz
> he had a sore foot.
> Kris, you should know I'm pro creativity, but also a
> pragmatist with design AND building experience.
WHich is why I was confused. WHich in turn brings out my compulsively
pedantic side =:-o
((Plus Kekule is one of my favorite examples, so resisting the urge to
mention him is almost impossible ;) ))
>
>> > For practical construction, consistency is vital, like a
>> > 2x4 is a 1.5x3.5 within 1/32" as is 4'x8' plywood.
>>
>> >> > BC is "donating" lumber to the China quake victims
>> >> > cuz wood frames - properly constructed - survive
>> >> > quakes better than concrete ones that squished lots
>> >> > of kids 10,000 + ...
>> >> > Ken
>>
>> >> Lumber in many areas, tho', remains quite expensive.
>>
>> > Well how is bamboo going to be cheaper?
>> > How do you deliver it to a site with specifications?
>> > Ken
>>
>> I'm not a construction designer, so obviously I don't know those
>> specifics. THat being said, if something like Giant Timber Bamboo
>> (hardy to about 12 degrees F, height to 75', diameter to 7", low
>> water needs - pic:http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/44914/)
>> grows locally and quickly, why *shouldn't* it be cheaper if planted
>> for production? Also, if it's local, the shorter distance of
>> transportwould be a savings (including a savings of pollutants). As
>> for specs, the question is more of a design/architectual question
>> hinging upon a knowledge of the material and its properties, not a
>> delivery question (since, given how bamboo grows, there would be a
>> number of cane-sizes available at any given time - IOW, same as with
>> tree farming).
>
> In canada trees are practically free, the costs are cutting
> trimming shipping etc. I recall Galina provided some good
> architectural examples a year or so ago.
> Ken
>
I don't recall, but i'm thinking more about areas, as mentioned, where
Bamboo grws well and fast, but trees tend to struggle and/or grow really
slowly.
It's along the lines of "designing for the local conditions" - sometime,s
materials and designs can be successfully brought from one area and used
in another, but often, the opposite is true: what works well in one
climate and geographical location can be a disaster in another climate
and geogrpahical area. Both are considerations, becasue even if 2 areas
have technically-similar climates, other factors (from geology to
economics) are often different, based upon the location.
Wood shingles/clapboard makes a good example - worked well in some areas,
but in Houston, combining the heat plus the humidity (subtropical
climate) dramatically shortens the life of any sort of wood cladding.
People still *use* it, but it rots quickly and encourages termites (esp.
when people pile mulch right up to the slab). IN Vancouver, there were
problem with the newer homes that used Acrylic stucco - it is good in
California, because it can exm pand and contract with the temperature
extremes experienced in arid and semi-arid climates, but it's prone to
water infiltration in wet climates. In the Houston area, what gets
called "stucco" has also gotten such a bad reputation, in part due to
imporper material and in part due to poor application, that many
insureance companies simply won't cover it against damage, and most
insist upon a rigorous set of installation specifications.
With Bamboo, I'm sure that a purely-Bamboo stucture here wouldn't last a
very long time; OTOH, given the size and strangth of that Giant Timber
Bamboo, and of course if good attachment methods could be worked out, I
could see it working out for certain components of a structure,
especially given how well it seems to grow in this area, and places like
Florida for example. If nothing else, I wonder whether it could work out
for things like Gazebos and Sheds, which currently use wood products but
typically are short-lived structures.
I just don't think it ought to be discounted out-of-hand, depending upon
what area is being considered. In that respect, it's like Adobe or
rammed earth - both can work well in someplace like Arizona, or areas of
New Mexico and California, but prob. not in Houston or Vancouver.
It relates to the whole idea of Indigenous Architecture - how and why
certain building styles develop, and certain materials become widely
used, is certain areas and climates. Like, if I had to move to Tornado
Ally, I'd want a robust concrete structure, or at the very least, a "safe
room" if there was no convertable basement - but most definitely *NOT* a
bamboo house <LOL!!>
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