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Subject Author Date
Cat and Mouse Michael Bulatovich 09-25-2007
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Posted by 3D Peruna on September 29, 2007, 1:01 pm
Michael Bulatovich wrote:

>
> It's pretty unusual for a bureaucrat to use a tape....Now what? Committee of
> Adjustment? or does a Conservation Authority have jurisdiction?

Here in "lake country" they are very worried about what goes in the
lakes, particularly pollution of different types. Septic systems are
one potential source of lake pollution, so they're very careful about
these systems.

The "city" isn't one. It's officially chartered by the state...which
gives them a mayor and a couple of police to write speeding tickets.
They don't have a building department, but do have a P&Z administrator.
The P&Z's administrator has the primary job of making sure that
buildings are built according to the P&Z rules. They require site plans
to be submitted prior to construction. This is to verify that the owner
is planning to build within setbacks, the septic system is properly
sited and sized, etc. Usually (in this jurisdiction), the only
inspection is that the septic system has been correctly installed.

Things get really complicated here... The Department of Natural
Resources has jurisdiction over the "water" (beginning at the "ordinary
high water mark"). A county or city will then have jurisdiction over
the rest of the property. But, what happens if a lake is in two
counties? Then what happens when each county has different shoreland
zoning rules? You can imagine that land owners get upset when their
neighbor down the road (in a different county) gets to do something
different (like have a boat house on the shore) and they don't (even
though it's on the same lake).


Posted by Michael Bulatovich on September 29, 2007, 1:24 pm

> Michael Bulatovich wrote:
>
>>
>> It's pretty unusual for a bureaucrat to use a tape....Now what? Committee
>> of Adjustment? or does a Conservation Authority have jurisdiction?
>
> Here in "lake country" they are very worried about what goes in the lakes,
> particularly pollution of different types. Septic systems are one
> potential source of lake pollution, so they're very careful about these
> systems.
>
> The "city" isn't one. It's officially chartered by the state...which
> gives them a mayor and a couple of police to write speeding tickets. They
> don't have a building department, but do have a P&Z administrator. The
> P&Z's administrator has the primary job of making sure that buildings are
> built according to the P&Z rules. They require site plans to be submitted
> prior to construction. This is to verify that the owner is planning to
> build within setbacks, the septic system is properly sited and sized, etc.
> Usually (in this jurisdiction), the only inspection is that the septic
> system has been correctly installed.
>
> Things get really complicated here... The Department of Natural Resources
> has jurisdiction over the "water" (beginning at the "ordinary high water
> mark"). A county or city will then have jurisdiction over the rest of the
> property. But, what happens if a lake is in two counties? Then what
> happens when each county has different shoreland zoning rules? You can
> imagine that land owners get upset when their neighbor down the road (in a
> different county) gets to do something different (like have a boat house
> on the shore) and they don't (even though it's on the same lake).

I built a house in a 'protected watershed' area (
http://www.mah.gov.on.ca/Asset1865.aspx ), so I'm familiar with many of the
problems you describe...and more. There the water, because it was deemed a
'cold water fishery' was FEDERAL jurisdiction. The watershed was governed by
*PROVINCIAL* legislation, and the municipalities were forced to bring their
zoning regs into conformance with the provincial legislation. We got in just
weeks before the more restrictive zoning would have taken effect. The trees,
slopes and wildlife habitat were governed by a regional (COUNTY)
conservation authority. They imposed all kinds of spatial and time limits on
what could be done, where, and when.

As a result, even though I had to stickhandle through *four* levels of
government, we 're way closer to the water than anyone else ever will be in
the future. I tried to tell that to a neighbor who later wanted me to do the
same for him, but he wouldn't believe me. I didn't get the job, but the
(tackier) house went were I told him it would have to go...(Messenger
removes arrow from back.)
--


MichaelB
www.michaelbulatovich.ca



Posted by 3D Peruna on September 29, 2007, 4:46 pm
Michael Bulatovich wrote:

> As a result, even though I had to stickhandle through *four* levels of
> government, we 're way closer to the water than anyone else ever will be in
> the future. I tried to tell that to a neighbor who later wanted me to do the
> same for him, but he wouldn't believe me. I didn't get the job, but the
> (tackier) house went were I told him it would have to go...(Messenger
> removes arrow from back.)

We get that kind of stuff occasionally, too. If the client won't pay
for a survey before we start, we won't take the job. One county
requires that the site plan be submitted on a site drawing created by a
licensed surveyor, so that helps us out. The next thing we do is a
thorough zoning review because inevitably, the owner wants to do
something that's not allowed. We then cite chapter and verse as to why
they can't do what they want. They threaten to call the AHJ themselves
(which we advise them not to do, but some do anyway). Usually, the come
back to us, hat in hand, and the project moves forward. A few times
they insist on wasting the time and money to get a variance. When I
first started in this area your chances were 50/50 of getting it...
usually worth the try. Now, it's about 90/10 against, unless you have a
very compelling reason (we had a client be told by the county to raze
the building on the property and camp there, as camping is "reasonable"
use. The code is written in such a way to remove economics from the
equation. It matters not one whit to them if you lose the value of your
property to maintain their rules).


Posted by Michael Bulatovich on September 30, 2007, 5:00 pm

> Michael Bulatovich wrote:
>
>> As a result, even though I had to stickhandle through *four* levels of
>> government, we 're way closer to the water than anyone else ever will be
>> in the future. I tried to tell that to a neighbor who later wanted me to
>> do the same for him, but he wouldn't believe me. I didn't get the job,
>> but the (tackier) house went were I told him it would have to
>> go...(Messenger removes arrow from back.)
>
> We get that kind of stuff occasionally, too. If the client won't pay for
> a survey before we start, we won't take the job.

Same here. Always a bad sign.



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