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Posted by Michael Bulatovich on January 24, 2008, 10:24 am
>
>> Remember the post he made one time about water?
>> Man, almost made me get all misty eyed.
>> The boy could write some stuff when he set his mind to it.
>> Only once did I ever see him step, outside the boudaries of
>> *professionalism* in his writings, the oldtimers know what I'm talking
>> about.
>> And it was but a minor consideration considering the topic of the thread
>> twist. heh
>>
>
> This one?
> ---------------------------------
> Greetings to all here in alt.architecture.
>
> I have been generally disgusted by much of the recent content of the
> group, ...especially the cross-posts from some rather odd
> newsgroups...so I've stayed out of it. However, I finally decided that I
> have an obligation to express my opinion....welcome or not. In doing
> so, I am not trying to convince anyone to agree with me....simply trying
> to give balance to some rather bizarre points of view.
>
>
> I am also going to criticize the beliefs of a long-time poster to this
> group, something I generally try to avoid. However, I feel quite
> strongly that my friend ghost-sniper has made too many hostile comments
> against civilization as a whole, including obnoxious and uncalled-for
> personal attacks on anyone with whom he disagrees, and that these cannot
> go unchallenged. For the record, those of you who have followed this
> group in recent years will recall that I have on several occasions
> defended his right to express his opinions here, and I will continue to
> do so. Ghost-sniper has often contributed useful observations on
> construction and the business of building, and I hope he will continue
> to do so. I will not enter into personal attacks, and I prefer to think
> that he will reply in kind....but that is his choice to make.
>
>
> First....as to the notion that each of us is responsible only to him or
> her self....this is ridiculous. From the earliest dawn of homo sapiens,
> we are a species that has done its best by working in groups...whether
> for hunting, gathering, agriculture, industry or whatever. Isolated
> individuals who have no support from or interaction with a group do not
> drive pick-up trucks and live in gated communities. I assume that every
> penny that ghost-sniper possesses has been earned by honest work...but
> within a larger economic system that generates wealth. Outside of that
> system, life would be quite different.
>
>
> The original meaning of the word "civilization" is the art of living in
> cities....the art by which a large group of people organize themselves
> in order to get along and flourish in a large and complex society. Of
> course, there are cultures in which this level of complexity never
> arises...those that operate at the level of small bands, tribes or
> villages. When everyone is inter-related, or when the group is so small
> that everyone knows everyone else, the system of governance can be quite
> simple. However, once the scale increases to include large numbers of
> people who are unknown to each other and who live in different places,
> the mechanisms that work for governing a small group simply do not
> function. They must be enhanced by larger governmental organizations
> such as states or nations.
>
>
> Now some will say that this is a mistake, and that there should be no
> government larger than a village, similar to the type of community
> effort ghost-sniper described in his description of his gated community.
> Those who live in the United States and who hold this opinion are
> entitled to express them....but I will only respect their honesty after
> they have done the following, all of which are the actions of a national
> government:
>
>
> 1. Leave the territory of the United States since you consider the
> national government and economic system illegitimate and do not wish to
> be tainted by any of the benefits of living here.
> 2. With your friends, find some un-built-upon land and either
> purchase
> it...without using dollars, which is the currency from our supposedly
> corrupt national economic system backed by the national government...or
> fight a war of conquest to win it, and then seek recognition as a state
> by the world community...or prepare yourselves for ongoing military
> actions by those who do not recognize your claim to the land. (The land
> should be unimproved if you want to prove your point of
> self-sufficiency...otherwise you would be taking advantage of the
> efforts of others which would completely negate your ideas).
> 3. Build your community any way you wish....providing the
> infrastructure
> you desire of roads, ports, airports, water systems, water treatment
> systems, etc.
> 4. Support yourselves any way you wish...but if you wish to sell
> services or goods to citizens of other countries, including the US, you
> will need to develop treaties and request visas. If you prefer piracy,
> that is your right, although you will thereby prove your dependence on
> the efforts of others and must again prepare yourself for the military
> response of other nations.
> 5. Develop your own currency and try to win its acceptance and
> confidence in world markets.
> 6. Attempt to attract foreign investments if you wish to live beyond
> the
> level of subsistence.
> 7. Develop whatever system of justice, policing, etc. you
> choose...and
> your own system to prevent attack or abuse by criminal elements.
> 8. Develop your own education system, assuming you expect your
> experiment to survive more than one generation.
> 9. Do all this without the support of any national government, since
> you
> do not respect national governments and have repeatedly said that you do
> not want any help from anyone.
>
>
> Then write us and tell us about your new state....then I will listen,
> but not before.
>
>
> The fact is that ghost-sniper is benefiting enormously by living in this
> country under its system of government, economics and taxation...and
> unless he is willing to back up his words with the actions I describe
> above, all his attacks are those of someone barking at his own
> caretaker.
>
>
> Some examples...I was going to remind him that the current configuration
> of our nation was the result of aggressive action in the 19th century by
> the national government, funded by taxpayers, to seize vast amounts of
> land through purchase and/or military conquest, to pacify these lands
> through federal military occupation, to subsidize the construction of
> the railroads through gifts of land and military protection, and to
> subsidize settlement through the offer of land grants. However
> ghost-sniper has already suggested that he considers all of these
> illegitimate and unconstitutional acts in his amusing rejection of
> Jefferson's purchase of the Louisiana Territory with national tax
> dollars! Without these actions by the tax-based national government we
> would still be the original 13 colonies on the Atlantic Coast, backed up
> by a much larger French-speaking nation stretching from New Orleans to
> Canada, including Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Arkansas, Illinois,
> Michigan, etc. Of course we don't know what would have happened between
> Spain and France....since for some time they were both ruled by the
> Bourbons,...so maybe all of the North American continent would be ruled
> by a French-Spanish nation dominating its tiny English-speaking
> neighbor. Personally, I imagine that if Jefferson had NOT purchased
> Louisiana, the French and Spanish would have ultimately crushed the 13
> coastal states in order to win access to their Atlantic ports. (By the
> way....ghost sniper lives in Florida...."La Florida" of the Spanish
> Empire....now just how did THAT become part of the US without action by
> the national government?...or maybe he would prefer to pay taxes to King
> Juan Carlos!?)
>
>
> I for one am quite proud to be part of a civilized society in a nation
> of states. I am quite happy to be part of a species that survives at its
> best through combined efforts. I am also proud to be an
> architect....part of a 5000-year legacy of providing the built settings
> for the life of this civilization.
>
>
> I expect that others share this pride...and I offer you my respect and
> friendship.
>
>
> Christopher Egan,
> Architect and citizen of the United States of America
Wow. Plus ca change...!
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