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Fireproof Construction looks like?

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Fireproof Construction looks like? mike 10-26-2007
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Posted by on October 26, 2007, 2:40 pm
Just how practical and costly would a near fireproof res. really be -
compared to standard stucco and wood frame?

Did a google and found next to nothing. I'm thinking about the recent
fire storms in California. Sparks and fire moves like a high wind
snow storm - down, sideways and even up under anything above ground
level.

First there is no such thing as fireproof - only near fireproof.
Given the above conditions it would appear that the construction would
need to be near air tight in order to keep out fire. Any vents or
even roof tile would likely be major problems. Vents (no plastic)
would need steel covers - to be manually closed prior to the event.
Glass in windows or doors?? The roofing (even tiles with air gaps)
would be a real problem.

Any suggestions or links (other than reinforced concrete boxes)?

m

Posted by MO full name on October 26, 2007, 4:11 pm
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:40:30 -0700, mike@nosam.org wrote:

>Just how practical and costly would a near fireproof res. really be -
>compared to standard stucco and wood frame?
>
>Did a google and found next to nothing. I'm thinking about the recent
>fire storms in California. Sparks and fire moves like a high wind
>snow storm - down, sideways and even up under anything above ground
>level.
>
>First there is no such thing as fireproof - only near fireproof.
>Given the above conditions it would appear that the construction would
>need to be near air tight in order to keep out fire. Any vents or
>even roof tile would likely be major problems. Vents (no plastic)
>would need steel covers - to be manually closed prior to the event.
>Glass in windows or doors?? The roofing (even tiles with air gaps)
>would be a real problem.
>
>Any suggestions or links (other than reinforced concrete boxes)?
>
>m

Seriously, assuming 100'-200' clearance of flammable all around (if
possible) stucco on wood would work if there are NO holes or vents and
a proper seal at the bottom (done how?). Most hurricane or storm
shutters I have seen are far from airtight and would allow sparks and
burning debris to fly right through. Roof tile would have a similar
problem. There can be no exposed wood or plastic anything.
Rather than a generator - have dual gas powered fire pumps from
adequate water source(s). One may not start when needed. Is design
not all about controlling costs while achieving goals. Others here
are far smarter than me...


Posted by Michael Bulatovich on October 26, 2007, 5:40 pm

> Just how practical and costly would a near fireproof res. really be -
> compared to standard stucco and wood frame?
>
> Did a google and found next to nothing. I'm thinking about the recent
> fire storms in California. Sparks and fire moves like a high wind
> snow storm - down, sideways and even up under anything above ground
> level.
>
> First there is no such thing as fireproof - only near fireproof.
> Given the above conditions it would appear that the construction would
> need to be near air tight in order to keep out fire.

Why do you say that?

> Any vents or
> even roof tile would likely be major problems. Vents (no plastic)
> would need steel covers - to be manually closed prior to the event.
> Glass in windows or doors?? The roofing (even tiles with air gaps)
> would be a real problem.
>
> Any suggestions or links (other than reinforced concrete boxes)?

This is something I've thought about, for a second or two, during a
recurring reverie where I can afford wooded recreational property within a
reasonable drive of my home town. I never get to far with it, since the
premise is pretty far-fetched, but non-combustible construction is an
obvious place to start. Fire shutters could probably handle the openings.
Landscaping/siting could be part of the answer as well. More than
airtightness, my limited thinking has focused on eliminating conduction
through non-combustible assemblies.

Everything's harder in tighter suburban contexts where there's less
maneuvering room in siting a building.
--


MichaelB
www.michaelbulatovich.ca



Posted by on October 26, 2007, 7:28 pm
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 17:40:32 -0400, "Michael Bulatovich"

>
>> Just how practical and costly would a near fireproof res. really be -
>> compared to standard stucco and wood frame?
>>
>> Did a google and found next to nothing. I'm thinking about the recent
>> fire storms in California. Sparks and fire moves like a high wind
>> snow storm - down, sideways and even up under anything above ground
>> level.
>>
>> First there is no such thing as fireproof - only near fireproof.
>> Given the above conditions it would appear that the construction would
>> need to be near air tight in order to keep out fire.
>
>Why do you say that?

Because sparks the size of dust particles have been known to enter
enclosed spaces. The result is often a sudden flash over/explosion
from the 'inside'..



>
>> Any vents or
>> even roof tile would likely be major problems. Vents (no plastic)
>> would need steel covers - to be manually closed prior to the event.
>> Glass in windows or doors?? The roofing (even tiles with air gaps)
>> would be a real problem.
>>
>> Any suggestions or links (other than reinforced concrete boxes)?
>
>This is something I've thought about, for a second or two, during a
>recurring reverie where I can afford wooded recreational property within a
>reasonable drive of my home town. I never get to far with it, since the
>premise is pretty far-fetched, but non-combustible construction is an
>obvious place to start. Fire shutters could probably handle the openings.
>Landscaping/siting could be part of the answer as well. More than
>airtightness, my limited thinking has focused on eliminating conduction
>through non-combustible assemblies.
>
>Everything's harder in tighter suburban contexts where there's less
>maneuvering room in siting a building.

Posted by Michael Bulatovich on October 27, 2007, 7:04 am

> On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 17:40:32 -0400, "Michael Bulatovich"
>
>>
>>> Just how practical and costly would a near fireproof res. really be -
>>> compared to standard stucco and wood frame?
>>>
>>> Did a google and found next to nothing. I'm thinking about the recent
>>> fire storms in California. Sparks and fire moves like a high wind
>>> snow storm - down, sideways and even up under anything above ground
>>> level.
>>>
>>> First there is no such thing as fireproof - only near fireproof.
>>> Given the above conditions it would appear that the construction would
>>> need to be near air tight in order to keep out fire.
>>
>>Why do you say that?
>
> Because sparks the size of dust particles have been known to enter
> enclosed spaces. The result is often a sudden flash over/explosion
> from the 'inside'..

Don't you need a pressure gradient to move them? I don't know about fire
spread, but wind would seem to be all you've got, unless I'm missing
something. Besides, with non-combustible construction your entire fuel
supply would be limited to furnishings, no?



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