Home Page link

How to go about getting a plan drawn

Home| Search | About
Login Password
Register Now! Lost Password?

Architecture and Design - Building design/construction and related topics. 

Page 1 of 2       1 2 > last >> Bookmark this page:  YahooMyWeb Yahoo!  Google Google  Windows Live Favorites Windows Live  del.icio.us del.icio.us  digg digg  Add to Netscape Netscape
Subject Author Date
How to go about getting a plan drawn DIYer 03-27-2008
If you were  Registered and logged in, you could reply and use other advanced thread options
Posted by DIYer on March 27, 2008, 1:35 pm
I need to replace the sill plate in my house so I figure out how I am
going to lift/support everything while I remove & replace. Then like
a good law-abiding citizen I call the building inspector and ask
about
the paperwork requirements. He asks me about the job I intend to do
and I explain it and he tells me I need 2 copies of the plan, a
completed permit application and also mentions anchor bolts are
required. I explain that as far as I can tell there are no existing
bolts on the damaged sill plate. No matter, a repair to a structure
requires it is brought up to code.

I do some googling, talk to the guys at 84 Lumber, and submit my
paperwork planning to use Simpson UFPs in place of the anchor bolts.
http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/UFP.asp
A few days later I get a call that my application is rejected because
the Simpson UFP is only rated for installation in a concrete
foundation not in concrete block even if the top course is grout-
filled (which is what I have). I tell the inspector that the joists
are only 2x8s so by the time I get right-angle drill in there I'll
have no room for a drill bit. He says all I can tell you is the code
requires '7" imbedment of 1/2" bolts within 12" of the end of a board
and spaced no more than every 6 feet'.


I ask him what have other people used in the past and he tells me he
is not allowed to recommend products and I should call around to
different manufacturers. Fair enough, I call Simpson, KC Metal
Products, USP Connectors and Red Head; none of them could reccomend a
product to me other than 1/2 bolts that can be screwed in to the
depth
required. Does me no good I can't drill a hole that deep and even if
I could I couldn't get the bolt in.
~7 1/2"vertical clearance - 1 1/2" for the sill means the most I
could
go is 6" deep.


I call the DCA in NJ (dept. in charge of code compliance) and talk to
the head engineer. He starts telling me about the 7" imbedment of
1/2' bolts etc. I ask him for some guidance and he tells me it is
incumbent on me to submit a plan that meets or exceeds the anchor
bolt
specs. Of course my question is "What are the specs for the anchor
bolts"? He starts again with the 7" imbedment, I interupt and ask
him
what the pullout rating and the shear strength of those 7" bolts is.
He tells me he doesn't have that information. WTF! How am I
supposed to find a product that meets or exceeds the specs when he
can't tell me the specs?


NJ didn't write their building code, they just adopted the ICC and
made a few modifications so I call the ICC. I get the same speech
about the code
requires 7" bolts... Again, he can't give the specs for anchor bolts
just that they need to be 1/2" bolts imbedded 7".


I can't be the only idiot that has had termite damage to a house with
2x8
floor joists but I may be the only idiot that tried to get a permit
to
fix the damage.

How would I go about finding an architect or engineer to certify that
a technique or product is equivelant to 7" imbedded 1/2" bolts?

Is this the kind of things architects or engineers are inclined to do?

Is it standard practice for a building inspector to accept anything
from an architect or is there a formal review process?

Obivously I've had no experience with architects or engineers so I
don't know where to begin.

Posted by DIYer on March 27, 2008, 4:01 pm
> Its not an easy fix, and I'm not gonna blow my brain thinking about all th=
e
> details.
> Get Simpson *ST6224* straps and tapcon them to the outside of the top cour=
se
> of block at each stud, then nail the strap to each stud.
> Use (4) 3/16" x 1-1/2" tapcons, and (8) 16d's for each strap.
> **ST6224 may not be long enough to do what you need. Get ahold of Simpsons=

> catalog and find the length you need.
> BTW: You'll not get much assistance at the big boxes and their supply of
> straps is pathetic, play on doing some legwork.

Problem is it is easy to get the specs from Simpson for any of their
products but I need to show the the ST6224 exceeds the mysterious
specs of the 1/2" anchor bolts. Maybe if I had some reference that
showed what the specs of 1/2" anchor bolt are.

>
> Curious, how are you gonna *lift* the entire house to do this chore?

Triple 2x12s with two-layers of 4-ply 1/2" plywood in between as a
beam under the joists.
Lifted by three 20 ton jacks and 6x6 posts all resting on a 2x10 lying
on the concrete basement floor to help distribute the weight.

I only plan on doing about 12' at a time. Then dealing with the
cracked drywall later.


>
>
>
>
>
> >I need to replace the sill plate in my house so I figure out how I am
> > going to lift/support everything while I remove & replace. =A0Then like
> > a good law-abiding citizen I call the building inspector and ask
> > about
> > the paperwork requirements. =A0He asks me about the job I intend to do
> > and I explain it and he tells me I need 2 copies of the plan, a
> > completed permit application and also mentions anchor bolts are
> > required. =A0I explain that as far as I can tell there are no existing
> > bolts on the damaged sill plate. =A0No matter, a repair to a structure
> > requires it is brought up to code.
>
> > I do some googling, talk to the guys at 84 Lumber, and submit my
> > paperwork planning to use Simpson UFPs in place of the anchor bolts.
> >http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/UFP.asp
> > A few days later I get a call that my application is rejected because
> > the Simpson UFP is only rated for installation in a concrete
> > foundation not in concrete block even if the top course is grout-
> > filled (which is what I have). =A0I tell the inspector that the joists
> > are only 2x8s so by the time I get right-angle drill in there I'll
> > have no room for a drill bit. =A0He says all I can tell you is the code
> > requires '7" imbedment of 1/2" bolts within 12" of the end of a board
> > and spaced no more than every 6 feet'.
>
> > I ask him what have other people used in the past and he tells me he
> > is not allowed to recommend products and I should call around to
> > different manufacturers. =A0Fair enough, I call Simpson, KC Metal
> > Products, USP Connectors and Red Head; none of them could reccomend a
> > product to me other than 1/2 bolts that can be screwed in to the
> > depth
> > required. =A0Does me no good I can't drill a hole that deep and even if
> > I could I couldn't get the bolt in.
> > ~7 1/2"vertical clearance - 1 1/2" for the sill means the most I
> > could
> > go is 6" deep.
>
> > I call the DCA in NJ (dept. in charge of code compliance) and talk to
> > the head engineer. =A0He starts telling me about the 7" imbedment of
> > 1/2' bolts etc. =A0I ask him for some guidance and he tells me it is
> > incumbent on me to submit a plan that meets or exceeds the anchor
> > bolt
> > specs. =A0Of course my question is "What are the specs for the anchor
> > bolts"? =A0He starts again with the 7" imbedment, I interupt and ask
> > him
> > what the pullout rating and the shear strength of those 7" bolts is.
> > He tells me he doesn't have that information. =A0 WTF! =A0How am I
> > supposed to find a product that meets or exceeds the specs when he
> > can't tell me the specs?
>
> > NJ didn't write their building code, they just adopted the ICC and
> > made a few modifications so I call the ICC. =A0I get the same speech
> > about the code
> > requires 7" bolts... =A0Again, he can't give the specs for anchor bolts
> > just that they need to be 1/2" bolts imbedded 7".
>
> > I can't be the only idiot that has had termite damage to a house with
> > 2x8
> > floor joists but I may be the only idiot that tried to get a permit
> > to
> > fix the damage.
>
> > How would I go about finding an architect or engineer to certify that
> > a technique or product is equivelant to 7" imbedded 1/2" bolts?
>
> > Is this the kind of things architects or engineers are inclined to do?
>
> > Is it standard practice for a building inspector to accept anything
> > from an architect or is there a formal review process?
>
> > Obivously I've had no experience with architects or engineers so I
> > don't know where to begin.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


Posted by Jude Alexander on March 28, 2008, 12:36 pm

>
>> Its not an easy fix, and I'm not gonna blow my brain thinking about all
>> the
>> details.
>> Get Simpson *ST6224* straps and tapcon them to the outside of the top
>> course
>> of block at each stud, then nail the strap to each stud.
>> Use (4) 3/16" x 1-1/2" tapcons, and (8) 16d's for each strap.
>> **ST6224 may not be long enough to do what you need. Get ahold of
>> Simpsons
>> catalog and find the length you need.
>> BTW: You'll not get much assistance at the big boxes and their supply of
>> straps is pathetic, play on doing some legwork.
>
> Problem is it is easy to get the specs from Simpson for any of their
> products but I need to show the the ST6224 exceeds the mysterious
> specs of the 1/2" anchor bolts. Maybe if I had some reference that
> showed what the specs of 1/2" anchor bolt are.
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> I don't think thats true.
> Its irrelevent what the specs are on the anchor bolts, because thats just
> *one* way to meet the code.
> What you have to do is find out what the code requires, then find the
> method to meet it.
> Yes, anchor bolts will do it, but so will other things.
> The uplifts and etc. are listed in the Simpson catalog.
> Hopefully you're not within a few hundred feet of a large body of water,
> cause if you are the rules are all different.
>
>
>
>>
>> Curious, how are you gonna *lift* the entire house to do this chore?
>
> Triple 2x12s with two-layers of 4-ply 1/2" plywood in between as a
> beam under the joists.
> Lifted by three 20 ton jacks and 6x6 posts all resting on a 2x10 lying
> on the concrete basement floor to help distribute the weight.
>
> I only plan on doing about 12' at a time. Then dealing with the
> cracked drywall later.
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> OK, now I get it, the sill plate is UNDER the joists.

I asked the OP why he needed to change his sill plates. He never answered.
If the reason still exists for the damaged sill plates, perhaps he should
consider a solution prior to replacing them??? :)



Posted by DIYer on March 28, 2008, 4:58 pm
r2.21624@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> >>> Its not an easy fix, and I'm not gonna blow my brain thinking about al=
l
> >>> the
> >>> details.
> >>> Get Simpson *ST6224* straps and tapcon them to the outside of the top
> >>> course
> >>> of block at each stud, then nail the strap to each stud.
> >>> Use (4) 3/16" x 1-1/2" tapcons, and (8) 16d's for each strap.
> >>> **ST6224 may not be long enough to do what you need. Get ahold of
> >>> Simpsons
> >>> catalog and find the length you need.
> >>> BTW: You'll not get much assistance at the big boxes and their supply =
of
> >>> straps is pathetic, play on doing some legwork.
>
> >> Problem is it is easy to get the specs from Simpson for any of their
> >> products but I need to show the the ST6224 exceeds the mysterious
> >> specs of the 1/2" anchor bolts. =A0Maybe if I had some reference that
> >> showed what the specs of 1/2" anchor bolt are.
>
> >> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> >> I don't think thats true.
> >> Its irrelevent what the specs are on the anchor bolts, because thats ju=
st
> >> *one* way to meet the code.
> >> What you have to do is find out what the code requires, then find the
> >> method to meet it.
> >> Yes, anchor bolts will do it, but so will other things.
> >> The uplifts and etc. are listed in the Simpson catalog.
> >> Hopefully you're not within a few hundred feet of a large body of water=
,
> >> cause if you are the rules are all different.
>
> >>> Curious, how are you gonna *lift* the entire house to do this chore?
>
> >> Triple 2x12s with two-layers of 4-ply 1/2" plywood in between as a
> >> beam under the joists.
> >> Lifted by three 20 ton jacks and 6x6 posts all resting on a 2x10 lying
> >> on the concrete basement floor to help distribute the weight.
>
> >> I only plan on doing about 12' at a time. =A0Then dealing with the
> >> cracked drywall later.
>
> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >> OK, now I get it, the sill plate is UNDER the joists.
>
> > I asked the OP why he needed to change his sill plates. =A0He never
> > answered. If the reason still exists for the damaged sill plates, perhap=
s
> > he should consider a solution prior to replacing them??? =A0:)
>
> The way I'm envisioning it the sill plate (2x8?) is sitting on the concret=
e
> block stemwall and then the joists are sitting on the sill plate.
> What happened, if thats the case, is that there was not proper drainage an=
d
> the sill plates rotted.
> So yes, figuring out why they rotted would go a long way in preventing thi=
s
> from happening again.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Termites. Lots of chemicals took care of them.

Posted by Jude Alexander on March 28, 2008, 5:40 pm

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >>> Its not an easy fix, and I'm not gonna blow my brain thinking about
> >>> all
> >>> the
> >>> details.
> >>> Get Simpson *ST6224* straps and tapcon them to the outside of the top
> >>> course
> >>> of block at each stud, then nail the strap to each stud.
> >>> Use (4) 3/16" x 1-1/2" tapcons, and (8) 16d's for each strap.
> >>> **ST6224 may not be long enough to do what you need. Get ahold of
> >>> Simpsons
> >>> catalog and find the length you need.
> >>> BTW: You'll not get much assistance at the big boxes and their supply
> >>> of
> >>> straps is pathetic, play on doing some legwork.
>
> >> Problem is it is easy to get the specs from Simpson for any of their
> >> products but I need to show the the ST6224 exceeds the mysterious
> >> specs of the 1/2" anchor bolts. Maybe if I had some reference that
> >> showed what the specs of 1/2" anchor bolt are.
>
> >> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> >> I don't think thats true.
> >> Its irrelevent what the specs are on the anchor bolts, because thats
> >> just
> >> *one* way to meet the code.
> >> What you have to do is find out what the code requires, then find the
> >> method to meet it.
> >> Yes, anchor bolts will do it, but so will other things.
> >> The uplifts and etc. are listed in the Simpson catalog.
> >> Hopefully you're not within a few hundred feet of a large body of
> >> water,
> >> cause if you are the rules are all different.
>
> >>> Curious, how are you gonna *lift* the entire house to do this chore?
>
> >> Triple 2x12s with two-layers of 4-ply 1/2" plywood in between as a
> >> beam under the joists.
> >> Lifted by three 20 ton jacks and 6x6 posts all resting on a 2x10 lying
> >> on the concrete basement floor to help distribute the weight.
>
> >> I only plan on doing about 12' at a time. Then dealing with the
> >> cracked drywall later.
>
> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >> OK, now I get it, the sill plate is UNDER the joists.
>
> > I asked the OP why he needed to change his sill plates. He never
> > answered. If the reason still exists for the damaged sill plates,
> > perhaps
> > he should consider a solution prior to replacing them??? :)
>
> The way I'm envisioning it the sill plate (2x8?) is sitting on the
> concrete
> block stemwall and then the joists are sitting on the sill plate.
> What happened, if thats the case, is that there was not proper drainage
> and
> the sill plates rotted.
> So yes, figuring out why they rotted would go a long way in preventing
> this
> from happening again.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Termites. Lots of chemicals took care of them.

Gottcha. I was wondering. :)



Page 1 of 2       1 2 > last >>
Similar ThreadsPosted
House Plan Ideas August 15, 2007, 3:21 pm
Help! I lost a free "green" house plan November 16, 2007, 12:10 pm

Contact Us | Privacy Policy

XML SitemapXML Sitemap