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Need ideas for window details Sasquatch 05-25-2006
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Posted by Sasquatch on May 25, 2006, 8:50 pm
I need ideas for window details. Can someone please help?

First some background info... I'm having a local builder build a
farm/folk house that I designed using 3D Home Architect and the
builder/designer is basing his final drawings on my plans. It's a
pretty safe design, so for the most part it doesn't matter that the
builder/designer is not very style savvy. That just means that I'm
responsible for telling him what I want, and I pretty much know exactly
what I want. The only problem is with the windows. I could really use
some advice.

The porch and the front of the garage are going to be brick, and the
rest of the house is going to have sage (green) vinyl siding with white
trim on the corners. The windows are going to be 3' x 4' 5" double
hung windows with no grill/panes and no shutters. They are going to be
white vinyl on the outside and on the inside they will be pine that we
will stain to match our oak casing/trim. Where there is vinyl siding,
there will be 3 1/2" white vinyl trim all the way around the windows.

Here's my question: For the windows in the brick, should I also ask
for the same 3 1/2" white vinyl trim around the windows so that they
match the rest? I'm afraid it would look odd. I've looked at
thousands of new homes for ideas, and nobody seems to put trim around
their windows where there is brick. But yet when I run this issue by
other people, they recommend that I ask for the windows in the brick to
be consistent with the rest of the windows--with the same white trim.
What do all of you think?

In case it helps, here are links to some drawings I exported from my 3D
Home Architect software:
http://www.vieth.info/house/ViethFarmHouse3D.pdf
http://www.vieth.info/house/ViethFarmHouseFront.jpg
http://www.vieth.info/house/ViethFarmHouseRoof2.jpg

Keep in mind that the porch rails will be white vinyl like the posts,
and there will be a shingled brow across the garage gable and the porch
gable, as shown in the front elevation. The front elevation is the
only drawing that shows all the trim details.

All constructive feedback is greatly appreciated.

- linux4all


Posted by eds on May 26, 2006, 2:36 pm

>I need ideas for window details. Can someone please help?
>
> First some background info... I'm having a local builder build a
> farm/folk house that I designed using 3D Home Architect and the
> builder/designer is basing his final drawings on my plans. It's a
> pretty safe design, so for the most part it doesn't matter that the
> builder/designer is not very style savvy. That just means that I'm
> responsible for telling him what I want, and I pretty much know exactly
> what I want. The only problem is with the windows. I could really use
> some advice.
>
> The porch and the front of the garage are going to be brick, and the
> rest of the house is going to have sage (green) vinyl siding with white
> trim on the corners. The windows are going to be 3' x 4' 5" double
> hung windows with no grill/panes and no shutters. They are going to be
> white vinyl on the outside and on the inside they will be pine that we
> will stain to match our oak casing/trim. Where there is vinyl siding,
> there will be 3 1/2" white vinyl trim all the way around the windows.
>
> Here's my question: For the windows in the brick, should I also ask
> for the same 3 1/2" white vinyl trim around the windows so that they
> match the rest? I'm afraid it would look odd. I've looked at
> thousands of new homes for ideas, and nobody seems to put trim around
> their windows where there is brick. But yet when I run this issue by
> other people, they recommend that I ask for the windows in the brick to
> be consistent with the rest of the windows--with the same white trim.
> What do all of you think?
>
> In case it helps, here are links to some drawings I exported from my 3D
> Home Architect software:
> http://www.vieth.info/house/ViethFarmHouse3D.pdf
> http://www.vieth.info/house/ViethFarmHouseFront.jpg
> http://www.vieth.info/house/ViethFarmHouseRoof2.jpg
>
> Keep in mind that the porch rails will be white vinyl like the posts,
> and there will be a shingled brow across the garage gable and the porch
> gable, as shown in the front elevation. The front elevation is the
> only drawing that shows all the trim details.
>
> All constructive feedback is greatly appreciated.
>
> - linux4all
>
That patch of brick looks tarted up in the vinyl siding. Why not get rid of
it and use matching vinyl siding. When I was teaching, I would have flunked
anyone who "glued" brick to a facade that does not ask for it. You are
building a Midwestern farmhouse style, the originals used wood, not brick.
EDS



Posted by Sasquatch on May 26, 2006, 2:50 pm
I appreciate your concern about the original farmhouse style. I ran
into the same issues when I was considering a Cape Cod. Most "Cape
Cods" today have little resemblance to true Cape Cods from 100 years
ago or so.

I've decided that when people say "Cape Code" or "Colonial" or
"Farm/folk House," regarding new construction, they're not implying
that they're trying to copy the original early designs. This home is
more aptly described as "inspired by farm/folk style." In other words,
it's a "Farm/folk Revival." So, although the originals employed little
no brick, much like Colonials, which were also 100% wood clapboard
sided, the modern versions often have brick accents.

In our area (Southwestern Wisconsin), brick accents or brick porches
are very popular. It also serves a functional purpose, as the brick
appears in all the areas of the house where people come in contact with
the sidings--main entrance, porch, garage doors, etc--where vinyl
siding might otherwise get damaged or dirty by frequent contact.

What do you think about my rationale?

Oh, yeah... One more thing... The covenants in the development where
we're building require at least a small amount of brick and/or stone on
the front of the house. 100% vinyl sided homes are prohibited. Also
prohibited are large steel external buildings/garages, boats or
vehicles parked in the yard, all any external shed must match the
house's style and materials, must be behind the house, and must be
proportionately smaller than the house (e.g. a certain percentage of
the main floor's square footage). ...and this is a rural development!
I actually like the covenants. Keeps out the riff-raff.

Thanks again for your feedback--much appreciated.

- John


Posted by RicodJour on May 26, 2006, 3:05 pm
Sasquatch wrote:
> I appreciate your concern about the original farmhouse style. I ran
> into the same issues when I was considering a Cape Cod. Most "Cape
> Cods" today have little resemblance to true Cape Cods from 100 years
> ago or so.
>
> I've decided that when people say "Cape Code" or "Colonial" or
> "Farm/folk House," regarding new construction, they're not implying
> that they're trying to copy the original early designs. This home is
> more aptly described as "inspired by farm/folk style." In other words,
> it's a "Farm/folk Revival." So, although the originals employed little
> no brick, much like Colonials, which were also 100% wood clapboard
> sided, the modern versions often have brick accents.
>
> In our area (Southwestern Wisconsin), brick accents or brick porches
> are very popular. It also serves a functional purpose, as the brick
> appears in all the areas of the house where people come in contact with
> the sidings--main entrance, porch, garage doors, etc--where vinyl
> siding might otherwise get damaged or dirty by frequent contact.
>
> What do you think about my rationale?

Ir-rationale. Not sure what you do to the front of your house that
would damage or dirty vinyl siding - but stop it! Vinyl is easier to
clean than brick and is far easier to repair.

> Oh, yeah... One more thing... The covenants in the development where
> we're building require at least a small amount of brick and/or stone on
> the front of the house. 100% vinyl sided homes are prohibited. Also
> prohibited are large steel external buildings/garages, boats or
> vehicles parked in the yard, all any external shed must match the
> house's style and materials, must be behind the house, and must be
> proportionately smaller than the house (e.g. a certain percentage of
> the main floor's square footage). ...and this is a rural development!
> I actually like the covenants. Keeps out the riff-raff.

As eds opined, pasting on a brick veneer to the front of a house is a
cheesy way to go about getting the brick incorporated into the
building. It's Colorforms design and construction. I'm sure you've
seen it on a million different houses. They all suck - each and every
one of them. It always looks like the builder/owner didn't have enough
money to finish the building with the nice stuff and cheaped out on the
sides of the building.

As far as your covenants keeping out the riff-raff, most of the
covenants I've encountered were created by riff-raff. People with
little knowledge of design who are "blessed" with absolute surety that
their way is best, create the covenants to insure that none of that
"wacky" stuff gets built. Unfortunately good design is so rare that it
is wacky stuff. Covenants are rarely anything more than legislated
mediocrity.

Holy shit, I'm channeling DON! I'm going to go lie down now. ;)

R


Posted by Sasquatch on May 26, 2006, 3:29 pm
I've seen some pretty nice, and very expensive homes that have brick
accents. When done well, I like it. And it's all about what *we*
like, right? So I was only asking about the window details because
that's one detail where I don't know what I like--I don't have an
opinion--so I'm seeking expertise.

As for brick accents being bad... I could see if I was making the
entire front brick, and everything else vinyl; that would be bad,
because it would indeed look like I was trying to make the house look
like brick from one view, and then go the cheap route everywhere else.
But in this case, for the front elevation, we're balancing the brick
and the wood (vinyl) pretty tastefully. The brick only goes up to the
porch roof, or, in the case of the garage, up to the shingled "brow,"
which is the same level as the porch roof. Everything above that
natural line of demarcation is going to be vinyl, like the faux
dormers, the gable on the garage, etc, and even the gable on the porch
roof above the front entrance.

As for covenants... I live in a rural area. If there were no
covenants, we would have people building huge steel buildings in their
front yards. That's just the way it is in rural Wisconsin. If you
want to protect your property values, you have to have covenants. You
can't assume your neighbors are going to be reasonable. As soon as you
start to assume that, you'll end up with a highly medicated dude
building an enormous "pond" in his front yard, or the fanciest 8-car
garage in town!

What do you guys think about the house in general?
> http://www.vieth.info/house/ViethFarmHouse3D.pdf
> http://www.vieth.info/house/ViethFarmHouseFront.jpg
> http://www.vieth.info/house/ViethFarmHouseRoof2.jpg

Love the feedback! Thanks!

- John


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