Post-and-Beam - Page 3

> > creative1...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > creative1...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > creative1...@gmail.com wrote:

> > > > > > > > Se=F1ior Popcorn-Coconut wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Aug 31, 10:14=A0pm, "creative1...@gmail.com" <creative=
1...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Aug 31, 1:02=A0am, Se=F1ior Popcorn-Coconut <glome..=
.@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 29, 2:36 pm, "creative1...@gmail.com" <creativ=
e1...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Se=F1ior Popcorn-Coconut> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh ya, and you can also take many PAB frames
> > > > > > > > > > > > > apart and rebuild/re-use them, and they last long=
> > > > > > > > > > > > Depends.
> > > > > > > > > > > > I went down to Bedford a couple weeks ago to look a=

> > > > > > > > > > > > barn someone was giving away and decided it wasn't =

> > > > > > > > > > > > The elements had gotten to the structure and prior =

> > > > > > > > > > > > had given it a thorough thrashing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Imagine a century of cows chewing on stuff.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Some of the upper structure, the hay mow <sp> was s=

> > > > > > > > > > > > guy said take all of it or none of it, so I walked.
> > > > > > > > > > > > 15 years ago I helped a guy in Kentucky disassemble=

> > > > > > > > > > > > real log cabin (18" wide logs, square cut, double d=

> > > > > > > > > > > > transport it to West Virginia and reconstruct it. W=

> > > > > > > > > > > > Analyzing old wood is a science and I'm in kinderga=

> > > > > > > > > > > > I pounded a steel drift into the center of a 12"x12=

> > > > > > > > > > > > went all the way in with little effort.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Not good.
> > > > > > > > > > > > In fact, I had to use another drift to pound the fi=

> > > > > > > > > > > > through and out the other side to get it out.
> > > > > > > > > > > > On another one, more toward the center of the build=

> > > > > > > > > > > > bounced off the surface of the column, it was solid=

> > > > > > > > > > > > I like the look of the stuff, the post and beam, wh=

> > > > > > > > > > > > the craftsmanship becomes the art of the thing, and=

> > > > > > > > > > > > reminder of the effort involved, not to mention the=

> > > > > > > > > > > > The harder the wood, the easier to work.
> > > > > > > > > > > Logs interest me less than PAB's, but maybe slightly =

> > > > > > > > > > > I have a problem with the idea of many kinds of stick=

> > > > > > > > > > > smaller-scale homes, in which case, their scale rende=

> > > > > > > > > > > structure more like PAB anyway, and that's how they m=

> > > > > > > > > > > be approached.
> > > > > > > > > > > Post-and-beams (what I prefer to call them, over 'tim=

> > > > > > > > > > > probably cheaper in the long run, and maybe even in t=

> > > > > > > > > > > you factor in many other things that some people don'=

> > > > > > > > > > > consider.
> > > > > > > > > > > (And there is value to be had beyond mere money).
> > > > > > > > > > > All things out of consideration, however, they're sti=

> > > > > > > > > > > more expensive than sticks, and so still worth it for=

> > > > > > > > > > > which is far more.
> > > > > > > > > > > Another thing is whether PAB's (at least their frames=

> > > > > > > > > > > sections) are (more) conducive to being prefabbed off=

> > > > > > > > > > > shorter time is needed to build them once onsite (and=

> > > > > > > > > > > and if there is less environmental impact to the site=
> > > > > > > > > > Oh dear.
> > > > > > > > > > No slam, but where did you get the idea that PAB wasn't=

> > > > > > > > > > expensive than sticks, assuming you mean 2x studs?
> > > > > > > > > > Large chunks of lumber are HUGELY expensive in themselv=

> > > > > > > > > > for the joinery is very expensive and the erection of t=

> > > > > > > > > > is very expensive as well. And get this, all of it is p=

> > > > > > > > > I'm talking about structural post and beam, as opposed to=

> > > > > > > > > and have seen a few quotes online of 10%-15% more expensi=

> > > > > > > > > for the finished house, if I read correctly.
> > > > > > > > > The actual PAB frame alone is a little more expensive, bu=

> > > > > > > > > getting 30%-35%.
> > > > > > > > > > There is no structural reason to warrant large timbers =

> > > > > > > > > > construction.
> > > > > > > > > To me there is and there are other reasons too.
> > > > > > > > > From what I'm learning, they last a very long time; are r=

> > > > > > > > > (recyclable); may be able to handle fires better (larger =

> > > > > > > > > timbers); are cost-effective over the long run; create be=

> > > > > > > > > are good for earthquakes and hurricanes; are preferred by=

> > > > > > > > > from an aesthetic/spiritual/historic/natural standpoint (=

> > > > > > > > > may have better intrinsic, social, lasting and/or resale/=

> > > > > > > > > value); and maybe more reasons too.
> > > > > > > > > > Here's a pretty accurate rule of thumb for residential =

> > > > > > > > > > using conventional method.
> > > > > > > > > > Materials =3D $X
> > > > > > > > > > Labor =3D 2x $X
> > > > > > > > > > For PAB I'd guess the cost is:
> > > > > > > > > My clients want more than guesswork.
> > > > > > > > > > Material =3D 4x $X
> > > > > > > > > > Labor =3D 4x $X
> > > > > > > > > > And I'm probably too conservative.
> > > > > > > > > > Further, you still have to use sticks or some such othe=

> > > > > > > > > > material between the PAB's.
> > > > > > > > > I have seen a PAB design in the book 'The House You Build=

> > > > > > > > > Dickinson, that apparently has the external walls away fr=

> > > > > > > > > and beams (which is what I like-- the idea that you can s=

> > > > > > > > > completely around an "external" post from the inside), so=

> > > > > > > > > no, or less, infill required. I don't yet know how they m=

> > > > > > > > > though. Perhaps SIP's or 2x4's and some windows.
> > > > > > > > > > There's a reason why you never see small PAB homes.
> > > > > > > > > I already have online. I've seen all kinds of sizes, from=

> > > > > > > > > cabins on up to timber-processing factories made of PABs.
> > > > > > > > > > Almost all of them are large because the people that ca=

> > > > > > > > > > won't live in a small house.
> > > > > > > > > Ironically, a smaller house is one way to get a very nice=

> > > > > > > > > > PAB is fun to play and dream with but for 99.99% of the=

> > > > > > > > > > that is all it is, a dream.
> > > > > > > > > You can believe whatever you want to believe.
> > > > > > > > I agree with Mr. Popcorn.
> > > > > > > > I designed a shed/shop and we built it, here's pix,
> > > > > > > >http://www.trak4.com/shed/index.html
> > > > > > > > An advantage of that system is many components (except roof
> > > > > > > > and piers) can be prefabed, such as floor, posts, beams and
> > > > > > > > walls can be done on a table.
> > > > > > > > Don't know if it's easy to scale to a classy house.
> > > > > > > > Ken
> > > > > > > First off, both you guys need to get your heads straight on t=
> > > > > > > definition of terms, both of you are all over the map in that=

> > > > > > > Second, as far as cost is concerned, there is reality then th=

> > > > > > > the internet.
> > > > > > > Reality always has its way.
> > > > > > > If anyone is *seriously* considering post and beam constructi=

> > > > > > > suggest they talk directly to someone locally that can provid=

> > > > > > > materials and the craftsmanship to fabricate and assemble the=

> > > > > > > involved and have that person give you a primer on ALL of the=

> > > > > > > involved.
> > > > > > > Otherwise, keep dreaming.
> > > > > > > Hell, using ya'lls definition of post and beam, the deck I bu=

> > > > > > > be called that.
> > > > > > > I mean, it has posts and it has beams........
> > > > > > > Welcome to Euphemasia, where nobody means what they mean.
> > > > > > Knock knock, anybody home?
> > > > > > I supplied a typical P&B construction with some pix above.
> > > > > > The posts are 4x4+, the beams 4x16 (hollow), and provide all
> > > > > > the headers respecting the roof joists/trusses.
> > > > > > I pretty much had the Bill of Materials nailed within 10%.
> > > > > > Into each segment was installed customized walls, built on
> > > > > > 4x8 benches, neat accurate and easy.
> > > > > > Ken
> > > > > In Richards words, those things are *sticks*, not post and beam l=

> > > > > he showed in his drawing and what is normally referred to as Post=

> > > > > Beam construction.
> > > > > Hell, all stick built homes have the stuff you mentioned, but its=
> > > > > rare home that has Post & Beam construction.
> > > > > As far as your cost estimate goes, thats pretty easy when the cos=
> > > > > are already known.
> > > > > Everything I've built so far has been within a few cents of what =
> > > > > figured because I called the suppliers up first and got the numbe=
> > > > > and my labor was free.
> > > > > Labor is the difficult part to figure the cost of when outside he=

> > > > > required.
> > > > > Post and Beam construction, like Richard has been talking about h=
> > > > > huge labor costs not to mention things like cranes, come-a-longs =

> > > > > outright muscle to get the things in place properly.
> > > > I (we) faced the 4x4's with 2x4's , thereby avoiding large posts,
> > > > IIRC the 2x4's were load bearing in some cases, such as the
> > > > floor beams, and gave some heft to the roof support, that was
> > > > rated for deep snow, 1 foot of ice, 11" water, it was built to
> > > > withstand Muskoka's harshest winters, ~ 10' accumulated snow.
> > > > The result looked like P&B, functioned like P&B and quacked
> > > > like P&B, so maybe it's pseudo (fake) P&B, it wasn't standard
> > > > Western construction we all know and love.
> > > > Ken
> > > Yes, it was standard stick built construction and there's no shame in
> > > that.
> > > Its affordable, very strong and if done properly meets all codes.
> > This is a bit semantical, I presume the term "standard stick"
> > implies 'Western Construction' , well the P&B we did needed
> > different engineering than simple WC.
> > Heres some of the story: I spec'd a 12x24 shop on swampy ground,
> > that would have a tendency to heave cuz of frost, so the posts were
> > built on threaded rods so the nuts could be used for seasonal
> > leveling.
> > =A0The design's were done and construction began, but then wifey
> > ordered a 16x24 addition to the front, (that's the part you see in the
> > last photo with the doors open). So I agreed to build that addition
> > using
> > the P&B method, still on swampy ground, it's not WC, cuz of the
> > foundation requirements.
> > For example, the P&B design enabled two 8x8 doors to be opened to
> > air the shop, south exposed, and another east door for cross vent,
> > which was nice when painting or building saw dust.
> > P&B has a differerent engineering than WC. WC has dedicated headers
> > but the P&B (I did) has full headers on the perimeter and interior
> > walls,
> > so one can remove a wall, mod it, and/or replace it, something that
> > can't
> > easily be done using standard WC.
> > Ken
> Lots of sites have *conditions* that are less than ideal and the
> experienced framer will deal with it accordingly using the design
> basics and any required engineering. I've seen threaded rods 30' long
> from the top plate of the 3rd floor to the pin footings and perimeter
> beam under the existing grade and this is all normal stuff or what you
> refer to as WC. Quite frankly, I don't even know what qualifies as
> abnormal as far as framing construction goes. BTW: Much of this stuff
> was on islands without roads leading to them so the framers had to be
> especially cunning because the big box was not right around the corner
> to bail them out. The barge dropped the lumber and the hardware on the
> beach and the doods just got r done, whatever it took, and always
> exceeded the code inspectors wrath. The stuff in Richards pretty pix
> is much more extensive all the way around.

> wrote:
> > > creative1...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > creative1...@gmail.com wrote:

> > > > > > > creative1...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Sep 3, 1:08=A0am, "Ken S. Tucker" <dynam...@vianet.on.ca=
> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Se=F1ior Popcorn-Coconut wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Aug 31, 10:14=A0pm, "creative1...@gmail.com" <creati=
ve1...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 31, 1:02=A0am, Se=F1ior Popcorn-Coconut <glome=
...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 29, 2:36 pm, "creative1...@gmail.com" <creat=
ive1...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Se=F1ior Popcorn-Coconut> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh ya, and you can also take many PAB frames
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > apart and rebuild/re-use them, and they last lo=

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Depends.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I went down to Bedford a couple weeks ago to look=

> > > > > > > > > > > > > barn someone was giving away and decided it wasn'=

> > > > > > > > > > > > > The elements had gotten to the structure and prio=

> > > > > > > > > > > > > had given it a thorough thrashing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Imagine a century of cows chewing on stuff.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Some of the upper structure, the hay mow <sp> was=

> > > > > > > > > > > > > guy said take all of it or none of it, so I walke=
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 15 years ago I helped a guy in Kentucky disassemb=

> > > > > > > > > > > > > real log cabin (18" wide logs, square cut, double=

> > > > > > > > > > > > > transport it to West Virginia and reconstruct it.=

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Analyzing old wood is a science and I'm in kinder=

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I pounded a steel drift into the center of a 12"x=

> > > > > > > > > > > > > went all the way in with little effort.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Not good.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > In fact, I had to use another drift to pound the =

> > > > > > > > > > > > > through and out the other side to get it out.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On another one, more toward the center of the bui=

> > > > > > > > > > > > > bounced off the surface of the column, it was sol=

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I like the look of the stuff, the post and beam, =

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the craftsmanship becomes the art of the thing, a=

> > > > > > > > > > > > > reminder of the effort involved, not to mention t=

> > > > > > > > > > > > > The harder the wood, the easier to work.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Logs interest me less than PAB's, but maybe slightl=

> > > > > > > > > > > > I have a problem with the idea of many kinds of sti=

> > > > > > > > > > > > smaller-scale homes, in which case, their scale ren=

> > > > > > > > > > > > structure more like PAB anyway, and that's how they=

> > > > > > > > > > > > be approached.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Post-and-beams (what I prefer to call them, over 't=

> > > > > > > > > > > > probably cheaper in the long run, and maybe even in=

> > > > > > > > > > > > you factor in many other things that some people do=

> > > > > > > > > > > > consider.
> > > > > > > > > > > > (And there is value to be had beyond mere money).
> > > > > > > > > > > > All things out of consideration, however, they're s=

> > > > > > > > > > > > more expensive than sticks, and so still worth it f=

> > > > > > > > > > > > which is far more.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Another thing is whether PAB's (at least their fram=

> > > > > > > > > > > > sections) are (more) conducive to being prefabbed o=

> > > > > > > > > > > > shorter time is needed to build them once onsite (a=

> > > > > > > > > > > > and if there is less environmental impact to the si=

> > > > > > > > > > > Oh dear.
> > > > > > > > > > > No slam, but where did you get the idea that PAB wasn=

> > > > > > > > > > > expensive than sticks, assuming you mean 2x studs?
> > > > > > > > > > > Large chunks of lumber are HUGELY expensive in themse=

> > > > > > > > > > > for the joinery is very expensive and the erection of=

> > > > > > > > > > > is very expensive as well. And get this, all of it is=

> > > > > > > > > > I'm talking about structural post and beam, as opposed =

> > > > > > > > > > and have seen a few quotes online of 10%-15% more expen=

> > > > > > > > > > for the finished house, if I read correctly.
> > > > > > > > > > The actual PAB frame alone is a little more expensive, =

> > > > > > > > > > getting 30%-35%.
> > > > > > > > > > > There is no structural reason to warrant large timber=

> > > > > > > > > > > construction.
> > > > > > > > > > To me there is and there are other reasons too.
> > > > > > > > > > From what I'm learning, they last a very long time; are=

> > > > > > > > > > (recyclable); may be able to handle fires better (large=

> > > > > > > > > > timbers); are cost-effective over the long run; create =

> > > > > > > > > > are good for earthquakes and hurricanes; are preferred =

> > > > > > > > > > from an aesthetic/spiritual/historic/natural standpoint=

> > > > > > > > > > may have better intrinsic, social, lasting and/or resal=

> > > > > > > > > > value); and maybe more reasons too.
> > > > > > > > > > > Here's a pretty accurate rule of thumb for residentia=

> > > > > > > > > > > using conventional method.
> > > > > > > > > > > Materials =3D $X
> > > > > > > > > > > Labor =3D 2x $X
> > > > > > > > > > > For PAB I'd guess the cost is:
> > > > > > > > > > My clients want more than guesswork.
> > > > > > > > > > > Material =3D 4x $X
> > > > > > > > > > > Labor =3D 4x $X
> > > > > > > > > > > And I'm probably too conservative.
> > > > > > > > > > > Further, you still have to use sticks or some such ot=

> > > > > > > > > > > material between the PAB's.
> > > > > > > > > > I have seen a PAB design in the book 'The House You Bui=

> > > > > > > > > > Dickinson, that apparently has the external walls away =

> > > > > > > > > > and beams (which is what I like-- the idea that you can=

> > > > > > > > > > completely around an "external" post from the inside), =

> > > > > > > > > > no, or less, infill required. I don't yet know how they=

> > > > > > > > > > though. Perhaps SIP's or 2x4's and some windows.
> > > > > > > > > > > There's a reason why you never see small PAB homes.
> > > > > > > > > > I already have online. I've seen all kinds of sizes, fr=

> > > > > > > > > > cabins on up to timber-processing factories made of PAB=
> > > > > > > > > > > Almost all of them are large because the people that =

> > > > > > > > > > > won't live in a small house.
> > > > > > > > > > Ironically, a smaller house is one way to get a very ni=

> > > > > > > > > > > PAB is fun to play and dream with but for 99.99% of t=

> > > > > > > > > > > that is all it is, a dream.
> > > > > > > > > > You can believe whatever you want to believe.
> > > > > > > > > I agree with Mr. Popcorn.
> > > > > > > > > I designed a shed/shop and we built it, here's pix,
> > > > > > > > >http://www.trak4.com/shed/index.html
> > > > > > > > > An advantage of that system is many components (except ro=
> > > > > > > > > and piers) can be prefabed, such as floor, posts, beams a=
> > > > > > > > > walls can be done on a table.
> > > > > > > > > Don't know if it's easy to scale to a classy house.
> > > > > > > > > Ken
> > > > > > > > First off, both you guys need to get your heads straight on=

> > > > > > > > definition of terms, both of you are all over the map in th=

> > > > > > > > Second, as far as cost is concerned, there is reality then =

> > > > > > > > the internet.
> > > > > > > > Reality always has its way.
> > > > > > > > If anyone is *seriously* considering post and beam construc=

> > > > > > > > suggest they talk directly to someone locally that can prov=

> > > > > > > > materials and the craftsmanship to fabricate and assemble t=

> > > > > > > > involved and have that person give you a primer on ALL of t=

> > > > > > > > involved.
> > > > > > > > Otherwise, keep dreaming.
> > > > > > > > Hell, using ya'lls definition of post and beam, the deck I =

> > > > > > > > be called that.
> > > > > > > > I mean, it has posts and it has beams........
> > > > > > > > Welcome to Euphemasia, where nobody means what they mean.
> > > > > > > Knock knock, anybody home?
> > > > > > > I supplied a typical P&B construction with some pix above.
> > > > > > > The posts are 4x4+, the beams 4x16 (hollow), and provide all
> > > > > > > the headers respecting the roof joists/trusses.
> > > > > > > I pretty much had the Bill of Materials nailed within 10%.
> > > > > > > Into each segment was installed customized walls, built on
> > > > > > > 4x8 benches, neat accurate and easy.
> > > > > > > Ken
> > > > > > In Richards words, those things are *sticks*, not post and beam=

> > > > > > he showed in his drawing and what is normally referred to as Po=

> > > > > > Beam construction.
> > > > > > Hell, all stick built homes have the stuff you mentioned, but i=

> > > > > > rare home that has Post & Beam construction.
> > > > > > As far as your cost estimate goes, thats pretty easy when the c=

> > > > > > are already known.
> > > > > > Everything I've built so far has been within a few cents of wha=

> > > > > > figured because I called the suppliers up first and got the num=

> > > > > > and my labor was free.
> > > > > > Labor is the difficult part to figure the cost of when outside =

> > > > > > required.
> > > > > > Post and Beam construction, like Richard has been talking about=

> > > > > > huge labor costs not to mention things like cranes, come-a-long=

> > > > > > outright muscle to get the things in place properly.
> > > > > I (we) faced the 4x4's with 2x4's , thereby avoiding large posts,
> > > > > IIRC the 2x4's were load bearing in some cases, such as the
> > > > > floor beams, and gave some heft to the roof support, that was
> > > > > rated for deep snow, 1 foot of ice, 11" water, it was built to
> > > > > withstand Muskoka's harshest winters, ~ 10' accumulated snow.
> > > > > The result looked like P&B, functioned like P&B and quacked
> > > > > like P&B, so maybe it's pseudo (fake) P&B, it wasn't standard
> > > > > Western construction we all know and love.
> > > > > Ken
> > > > Yes, it was standard stick built construction and there's no shame =
> > > > that.
> > > > Its affordable, very strong and if done properly meets all codes.
> > > This is a bit semantical, I presume the term "standard stick"
> > > implies 'Western Construction' , well the P&B we did needed
> > > different engineering than simple WC.
> > > Heres some of the story: I spec'd a 12x24 shop on swampy ground,
> > > that would have a tendency to heave cuz of frost, so the posts were
> > > built on threaded rods so the nuts could be used for seasonal
> > > leveling.
> > > =A0The design's were done and construction began, but then wifey
> > > ordered a 16x24 addition to the front, (that's the part you see in th=
> > > last photo with the doors open). So I agreed to build that addition
> > > using
> > > the P&B method, still on swampy ground, it's not WC, cuz of the
> > > foundation requirements.
> > > For example, the P&B design enabled two 8x8 doors to be opened to
> > > air the shop, south exposed, and another east door for cross vent,
> > > which was nice when painting or building saw dust.
> > > P&B has a differerent engineering than WC. WC has dedicated headers
> > > but the P&B (I did) has full headers on the perimeter and interior
> > > walls,
> > > so one can remove a wall, mod it, and/or replace it, something that
> > > can't
> > > easily be done using standard WC.
> > > Ken
> > Lots of sites have *conditions* that are less than ideal and the
> > experienced framer will deal with it accordingly using the design
> > basics and any required engineering. I've seen threaded rods 30' long
> > from the top plate of the 3rd floor to the pin footings and perimeter
> > beam under the existing grade and this is all normal stuff or what you
> > refer to as WC. Quite frankly, I don't even know what qualifies as
> > abnormal as far as framing construction goes. BTW: Much of this stuff
> > was on islands without roads leading to them so the framers had to be
> > especially cunning because the big box was not right around the corner
> > to bail them out. The barge dropped the lumber and the hardware on the
> > beach and the doods just got r done, whatever it took, and always
> > exceeded the code inspectors wrath. The stuff in Richards pretty pix
> > is much more extensive all the way around.
> I'm getting some blurring on the definitions of things, both online
> and in the books I have at home.
> For example, in one of my books, their concept of P&B has no apparent
> wood joinery (they call stuff with that, 'timber frame'); while I've
> read timber-frame as used to describe stick-builts using wood studs,
> whose joinery seems to be nails and/or metal brackets. As far as I
> understand; studs are "posts" that generally rely on nail-joinery and
> wall-sheets for lateral stiffness/support; while posts in P&B
> structures rely on brackets and wood mortise-and-tenon or metal brace/
> bracket/bolt joinery.
> Inspired by one of Rico's comments a month or 2 ago, I figured that if
> Don, was an artificial intelligence floating around the net, an
> emergent being from an autonomous, self-learning/replicating "virus
> bot" released at the dawn of the internet, I might be able to somehow
> initiate a summons for his specific consciousness, and see if I could
> pull in some clearer results.
> Seems AI still has a long way to go... Although he could still be one
> and maybe the scientists of long ago and no one else for that matter
> just haven't realized it yet. Except maybe Rico.
> (That might explain some of my spam)
> So until further clarification, I will try to refer to any "wood-
> joinery post-and-beam skeletal framework" construction, no matter the
> size of the timbers, as 'Timberframe Post-&-Beam' (TP&B).

> > I'm getting some blurring on the definitions of things, both online
> > and in the books I have at home.
> > For example, in one of my books, their concept of P&B has no apparent
> > wood joinery (they call stuff with that, 'timber frame'); while I've
> > read timber-frame as used to describe stick-builts using wood studs,
> > whose joinery seems to be nails and/or metal brackets. As far as I
> > understand; studs are "posts" that generally rely on nail-joinery and
> > wall-sheets for lateral stiffness/support; while posts in P&B
> > structures rely on brackets and wood mortise-and-tenon or metal brace/
> > bracket/bolt joinery.
> > Inspired by one of Rico's comments a month or 2 ago, I figured that if
> > Don, was an artificial intelligence floating around the net, an
> > emergent being from an autonomous, self-learning/replicating "virus
> > bot" released at the dawn of the internet, I might be able to somehow
> > initiate a summons for his specific consciousness, and see if I could
> > pull in some clearer results.
> > Seems AI still has a long way to go... Although he could still be one
> > and maybe the scientists of long ago and no one else for that matter
> > just haven't realized it yet. Except maybe Rico.
> > (That might explain some of my spam)
> > So until further clarification, I will try to refer to any "wood-
> > joinery post-and-beam skeletal framework" construction, no matter the
> > size of the timbers, as 'Timberframe Post-&-Beam' (TP&B).
> I believe you and I, inspite of what others have to say, understood
> what post & beam construction is.
> You, by way of your posted drawings.
> I, by way of my explanations of the terminology and reference to my
> experience.
> If you search the web long enough you'll find just about any and every
> thing, until you're right back where you started.
> I mentioned this about 2 years ago as something I learned while
> editing a book on this topic.
> The massive amounts of information on the web and the inability of
> many people to determine whats right and wrong.
> If you and I decide brown is blue and 7 is 44 we can still have a
> conversation with that common understanding.
> But if either of us does not agree implicitly then the conversation is
> ruined.

Se=F1ior Popcorn-Coconut> wrote:
> Fair enough. Let's just have fun and chat. Life's too short. :)

> creative1...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Se=F1ior Popcorn-Coconut> wrote:
> > > Fair enough. Let's just have fun and chat. Life's too short. :)
> > While we're on the topic of wood, there is another venue I have been
> > persuing with wanton abandon.
> > Vintage furniture refinishing and restoration.
> > I've already embarked on it and the going is sort of slow.
> > Currently on the bench is an 19th century floor lamp and a 18th
> > century spinning wheel.
> > Both were in drastic shape and some might say unsalvageable but I like
> > impossible challenges.
> > Both have been reduced to the lowest common denominator and are in
> > various states of disarray right now.
> > I have maybe 20 hours into each thus far.
> > The lamp will be a hybrid from various era's and the spinning wheel
> > will be true to form, at least as true as my research allows.
> > Parts are missing from the spinning wheel and I am making them from
> > scratch from wood I have harvested here on our land and air dryed in
> > the workshop.
> > I have quite a bit of raw wood stored and stacked.
> > I have an FLW looking square tiffany style lamp shade from the 20's
> > that will go on this lamp and it is in shades of browns thru ivorys
> > with some orange and yellow accents. And I hand turned a piece of
> > spalted hickory on the lathe in the shape of a 3" acorn that will go
> > on the top as a finial. The shaft of the lamp is a conventional
> > colonial style and it currently has a new chestnut stain that looks
> > mahvelous and some of the turned areas will be accented with a cream
> > colored enamel and then the whole thing will receive multiple coats of
> > satin poly, hand rubbed with 4/0 steel wool between coats. The
> > hardware is bright brass. Oh yeah, I also had to turn another piece of
> > hickory for the transistion from old lamp wood to new lamp hardware
> > and that turned out pretty good too. Did you know pure rubbing alcohol
> > will dissolve 300 year old hide glue? I'm gonna put the lamp in this
> > antique store over in Edinburg with a $400 price tag on it and see
> > what happens.
> > BTW: Get me your mailing address and I'll send you one of my custom
> > pen creations. I sent 2 to Ken and wifey a couple months ago and they
> > liked em. I do them a little differently than most other people do, of
> > course! I've made about 300 of them so far and have them for sale on
> > various sites but I mainly just give them away to family and friends.
> > I just like makin' em. Doing lathe stuff is like therapy.
> When 1st married, partly from economics, we collected lots of
> antiques, cleaned them up, painted them, and they worked good.
> Mostly from the 30's - 60's, my fav's were big crafted radio-TV
> cabinets, some had phono's, bars, album cabinet, also antique
> desks. To get rid of the units we'd put them out to the curb, and
> they were gone in about an hour, or just give them away.
> Now we build our own antiques cuz they're newer, but try to
> keep a 'retro' feel to them.
> Ken
> PS: Pen's is beauts!