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Posted by creative1985@gmail.com on October 26, 2009, 7:35 am
> wrote:
> > On Oct 21, 8:39 pm, destaub_at_deltaresearchgroup_dot_...@foo.com
> > (daysta) wrote:
> > > daysta had written this in response tohttp://www.thestuccocompany.com=
/architecture/Re-Chinese-drywall-again...
> > > =A0:
> > > creative1...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Oct 16, 2:37=3DA0pm, "Ken S. Tucker"
> > > >> Going foward, the archy will need to specify the drywall
> > > >> quality...
> > > >>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091015/ap_on_bi_ge/us_chinese_drywall
> > > >> Fair enough, I spec the work frame quality, vapor barrier,
> > > >> insulation,
> > > >> but things like electrical I've pushed off to the installer, so
> > > >> where
> > > >> does
> > > >> drywall fit in? One more thing for the archy?
> > > >> Ken
> > > > I posted a reply but its not showing up, whats up with that?
> > > > Building specifications can act as a legal means of assigning blame=
or
> > > > fault which can come in handy when push comes to shove.
> > > > A majority of the instances of the faulty drywall were inexpensive
> > > > builder grade homes targeted at first time home buyers.
> > > > The builders were cutting all legal and non-legal corners they coul=
d
> > > > to garner a piece of that bubble action and now with the economic
> > > > downturn they have left town so to speak.
> > > > In these homes the builder controlled just about everything and it =
was
> > > > a very competitive market at the time.
> > > > Ultimately the responsibility for the drywall falls on the people t=
hat
> > > > signed the original contract and that can vary, but most likely it =
is
> > > > not the home buyer that bears the responsibility yet still must end=
ure
> > > > the penalty.
> > > > In my opinion the entity that is supplying the majority of the fund=
ing
> > > > for a home building process should provide a means of making sure t=
hey
> > > > product they are financing is done according to the specifications
> > > > they themselves provide.
> > > > One of the things that facilitated this fiasco is something I have
> > > > mentioned before in the past and that is the innate ignorance and
> > > > apathy of the average home buyer in the US.
> > > > This combination of personal flaws is startling and at the same tim=
e
> > > > perplexing.
> > > > How can sane people enter into long term, hugely expensive contract=
s
> > > > on things they have very little knowledge of and do so without any
> > > > legal backing as well?
> > > > If this thing is as big as I've heard it will most likely receive a
> > > > gov't backed bailout and the financial support will be borne by the
> > > > taxpayers and others and those responsible for the mistakes will
> > > > skate.
> > > -------------------------------------
> > > Oh boy! =A0I will refer to your last paragraph. =A0Well, I am one of =
your so
> > > called ignorant average home buyers in the US. =A0You are probably ve=
ry
> > > young, naive and not from the USA. =A0I have bought a dozen homes and=
I have
> > > been able to succcessfully live and sell them at a profit. =A0We usua=
lly can
> > > trust our home inspectors and home builders with the process of buyin=
g a
> > > home. =A0But this is different. =A0You need to educate yourself and v=
isit a
> > > few of these homes. =A0All of the homes were not the builder grade fi=
rst
> > > home buyer homes you were referring to. =A0There are homes in my area=
that
> > > are in million dollar subdivisions that have this drywall. =A0Pleeeaa=
sse,
> > > this is wrecking peoples lives.
> > No, you will not refer to my last paragraph.
> > You will refer to my entire post or you will be shown to be a fool.
> > But then, your ignorance betrays you.
> > I have designed thousands of building projects all over the world for
> > more than 30 years for some of the largest builders and private
> > individuals that you have heard of.
> > Even after being involved with a dozen homes you publicly admit your
> > ignorance.
> > Very well.
> > I have seen these homes, many of them, and not one of them was built
> > by a concerned builder attentive to details as circumstances require,
> > otherwise this chinese drywall fiasco would not have occurred.
> > Learn the phrase, "caveat emptor", it is alive and well here in the
> > good ol' USSA and if you choose to be ignorant of that fact as well
> > then you have a bumpy road before you.
> > If you cannot do the heavy lifting required to build a new home then
> > maybe you should invest your time and effort elsewhere.
> > By heavy lifting I mean making the decisions and accepting the
> > responsibility of those choices.
> > It has become way to fashionable of late for people to run their
> > mouths then shift blame, as your post has so eloquently illustrated.
> In the past, aluminum (Al) wiring was approved then later we had to
> sign a form that the house we were selling had no Al wiring,
The very first home I bought was an older home that needed fixing up
and I was young and dumb and thought I could do it all.
It was wired for aluminum but an addition was wired with copper and
the house had sat vacant for a year, which is not good to do in high
humidity Florida.
On moving in day I threw the main breaker and started moving furniture
in. About 30 minutes into it my house caught fire, from a *chemical
reaction* at the union of copper/aluminum wires to the water heater. I
learned several things that day.
same
> thing happened with Urea Formaldehyde Foam. Though we are science
> types, things today are too damn complicated for a complete "Buyer
> Beware" mentality.
Things have been complicated all along Ken thats why legal mechanisms
are in place for intelligent people to reach beyond their own
expertise.
An intelligent person recognizes his limitations and hires competent
people with experience in the respective field(s) to deal with the
things he is unable to.
No one can be an expert at everything, cept Rico of course. ;-)
> Maybe this Chinese drywall, met the engineering code spec,
Stop right there.
If you trust building codes you deserve what you get because those
people cannot be held accountable.
because
> the spec doesn't have a stink rating, I don't know, or the drywall met
> Chinese specs, then what? The manufacturer is off the hook, and the
> 'blame' shifts, to who?
It doesn't *shift* anywhere, it stays right where it was from the
beginning.
> Myself, I think it's the builder.
> Ken
I think its the person(s) that signed the contract, be that builder,
developer, self, etc.
What you are seeing here is a lot of people trying to avoid
responsibility, surprise-surprise, most likely because the repair will
be very expensive, far beyond just the cost of replacing drywall,
especially with reference that a majority of the house inflicted with
malady being massive quanities of cheap builder homes where the cost
to value ratio is so low. In Cape Coral, Florida, right now, there are
over 1000 of these cheezy homes on the records with this drywall flaw
and its estimated the cost per home will be over $10k but with the
property values de-valued to the range of $40-80k it doesn't make
sense to replace the drywall. The land these homes are sitting on is
worth more than the houses. These houses sold for more than $100k in
the past 5-6 years. Now, they can't give them away so they sit vacant,
abandoned. (In 2005 the largest builder in Cape Coral, "1st Homes",
built more than 5300 homes there and all of them were what I
previously described. The owner of 1st Homes, sold the business to the
3rd largest builder in the country for bazillions of $$$ and then
promptly moved to his palatial estate on the west coast of central
Mexico, Hovnanian <sp> supposedly based in New Jersey whom recently
declared bankruptcy and left everyone dangling.)
Question for the day:
Whom is responsible for *allowing* faulty drywall into the country in
the first place?
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