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Posted by Warm Worm on November 14, 2009, 1:38 pm
that's "balance" in quotes. :)
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Posted by creative1985@gmail.com on November 15, 2009, 1:13 pm
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"Ken S. Tucker"> wrote:
> Wife and I built an anemometer, (we call
Windy)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anemometer
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> but we added x-mas lights to it so they spin.
> So the wires don't get twisted, I used 2 ball bearings to
> pass the 120V hot and neutral from the base to the spinor,
> she really likes it. I put it on top of her clothes line post so
> she can watch it from the kitchen window.
> We had a gentle snow today, and in a light breeze the flakes
> start falling at an angle and Windy started turning, beautiful
> physics.
> Ken
Wifey does Windy.
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Posted by creative1985@gmail.com on November 15, 2009, 1:21 pm
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Warm Worm> wrote:
> I guess you still have dialup, but You Tube has a surprising number of
> videos of home made wind generators, some especially competent. They
> seem very easy to make. I presume you are connected to the grid?
Easy?
Possibly.
Its that old balance thing again, money vs effort.
I toyed with the idea, then did the research, then moved on.
I have neither the money, nor the herculean effort, to vest in such a
thing right now.
I came upon a website where they made the wind generator completely
out of salvageable materials and the effort was huge.
If I recall correctly the heart of the thing was based on a set of
worn out disc brake rotors from an junked Volvo.
I think the thing was energized when they put the two rotors together
creating a hellacious electromagnet that smashed one guys fingers bad.
Personally, I think gravity and air pressure (14psi at sea level) is
all thats needed to do everything, no matter what.
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Posted by Warm Worm on November 15, 2009, 6:53 pm
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> > > Changed to ye old handle.
Yes I changed it back to what it was supposed to be before Google
Groups decided otherwise. I guess they fixed it.
wrote:
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> > > > > > > It was meant as an economics problem, cuz Mao subbed labor
> > > > > > > for machinery and claimed he didn't need backhoes. It turns o=
> > > > > > > the 200 was way more expensive than 1 backhoe.
> > > > > > Saying that something is way more expensive doesn't make it so.
> > > > > > Economic thinking/talking is just beginning to wrap its limp no=
odle
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> > > > > > around things like sustainability and necessity, even spirit or
> > > > > > psychology, and the verdict's still out.
> > > > > Nope, the math is simple accounting.
> > > > Sure and rich can be poor and poor can be rich. We need to account =
for
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> > > > that.
> > > Consider the cost of creating, educating, feeding, clothing
> > > a human being, then add the cost of a shovel, that's a
> > > capital investment.
> > > Next is food, housing, health care and latrines, while said
> > > human is ditch digging, then multiply x200 to do what one
> > > backhoe does.
> > > Give me some numbers.
> > Humans created the backhoes, not vice-versa, so there's no
> > comparision. But there're some numbers in there somewhere anyway if
> > you want to dance the circus poodle dance. Sure you probably run them
> > (the hoes) off assembly lines, but those also have numbers. Assembly
> > lines don't reproduce by themselves and need to be factored in other
> > equations, etc..
> > If you're going to cook your books, make sure you have ALL the
> > ingredients, not just the ones that balance.
> How much does it cost to take to create and born a baby
> then feed it to age 16, and include labor costs.
> Have ever been a parent?
I think our subthread began with Quonset huts "versus" natural-
building houses and your apparent contention about the extra amount of
labour involved and mine about looking at that in context with a
broader picture. I presume you mean prefab cookie-cutter Quonset hut
tracts dotting the landscape like a blight? That's not empowerment,
either; it's a corporate/supplier suckup. You've just removed yet more
freedoms in exchange for convenience; A fugly hut. ;)
I'm fine with stuff like the backhoe if they work within the broader
picture. To use a metaphor; it's no use "efficiently" blocking a huge
leak in a sinking ship if, in doing so, you inadvertently allow a
whole bunch of little leaks to spring up. Your books might balance
(god knows why they should), but the ship will continue to sink, and
possibly faster, especially if your pride in your efficient leak-
blockage gives you a blind-spot over the new leaks.
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> > > > What do you do with the backhoes when you don't need them anymore?
> > > Storing a backhoe is cheaper than storing a horse.
I wonder how many tricks the backhoe can do and how it compares to a
one-trick pony.
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> > You sure? What's the accounting on a typical hoe's infrastructure? A
> > horse will run from the "fuel" from your backyard, repair and
> > reproduce itself over generations and navigate pretty sophisticated
> > terrain. The implication is that it is "multipurposed" and does many
> > other things. Try those with a hoe.
> A backhoe only needs interest payments.
Like hell it does.
Anyway, here's this:
"The year 2001 witnessed a series of financial information frauds
involving... well-known corporations. These problems highlighted the
need to review the effectiveness of accounting standards, auditing
regulations and corporate governance principles. In some cases,
management manipulated the figures shown in financial reports to
indicate a better economic performance. In others, tax and regulatory
incentives encouraged over-leveraging of companies and decisions to
bear extraordinary and unjustified risk."
-- Wikipedia
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> > > > What else do they do?
> > > > 200 people can do lots of different things.
> > > Like what? You're changing the discussion parameters.
> > Seems to me I've been insinuating the broadening of parameters all
> > throughout the discussion.
> Ok, what's you agenda?
> Energy, economics, love?
Maybe as close as we can get to the best of all worlds? Not as in,
utopia, but we're not even close in any case. We aren't trying hard
enough.
40-hour workweeks say nothing of efficiency, if that's the right
expression.
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> > That does sound nice. I had heard about your anemometer. I haven't
> > seen any snow yet here in Ottawa, but someone recently told me we did
> > have a brief flurry a week or so ago which might have been when I was
> > sick in bed. I'm just getting over a cold.
> > I guess you still have dialup, but You Tube has a surprising number of
> > videos of home made wind generators, some especially competent. They
> > seem very easy to make. I presume you are connected to the grid?
> If we can get the prototype functional I'll sell them.
Maybe our kids are already sold, wage slavery and all that.
Anyway, more seriously yet, all the best with the proto-mill. I like
them. Referring to my previous new-thread post; If they explode, it
might mean there's more wind to use and/or they need to be
"overengineered". ;)
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Posted by Warm Worm on November 18, 2009, 1:52 am
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> > > > > > > Changed to ye old handle.
> > > > Yes I changed it back to what it was supposed to be before Google
> > > > Groups decided otherwise. I guess they fixed it.
wrote:
show/hide quoted text
> > > > > > > > > On Nov 12, 10:28 am, Se=F1or Popcorn-Coconut <glome...@ya=
hoo.ca> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > It was meant as an economics problem, cuz Mao subbed =
labor
show/hide quoted text
> > > > > > > > > > > for machinery and claimed he didn't need backhoes. It=
turns out
show/hide quoted text
> > > > > > > > > > > the 200 was way more expensive than 1 backhoe.
> > > > > > > > > > Saying that something is way more expensive doesn't mak=
e it so.
show/hide quoted text
> > > > > > > > > > Economic thinking/talking is just beginning to wrap its=
limp noodle
show/hide quoted text
> > > > > > > > > > around things like sustainability and necessity, even s=
pirit or
show/hide quoted text
> > > > > > > > > > psychology, and the verdict's still out.
> > > > > > > > > Nope, the math is simple accounting.
> > > > > > > > Sure and rich can be poor and poor can be rich. We need to =
account for
show/hide quoted text
> > > > > > > > that.
> > > > > > > Consider the cost of creating, educating, feeding, clothing
> > > > > > > a human being, then add the cost of a shovel, that's a
> > > > > > > capital investment.
> > > > > > > Next is food, housing, health care and latrines, while said
> > > > > > > human is ditch digging, then multiply x200 to do what one
> > > > > > > backhoe does.
> > > > > > > Give me some numbers.
> > > > > > Humans created the backhoes, not vice-versa, so there's no
> > > > > > comparision. But there're some numbers in there somewhere anywa=
y if
show/hide quoted text
> > > > > > you want to dance the circus poodle dance. Sure you probably ru=
n them
show/hide quoted text
> > > > > > (the hoes) off assembly lines, but those also have numbers. Ass=
embly
show/hide quoted text
> > > > > > lines don't reproduce by themselves and need to be factored in =
other
show/hide quoted text
> > > > > > equations, etc..
> > > > > > If you're going to cook your books, make sure you have ALL the
> > > > > > ingredients, not just the ones that balance.
> > > > > How much does it cost to take to create and born a baby
> > > > > then feed it to age 16, and include labor costs.
> > > > > Have ever been a parent?
> > > > I think our subthread began with Quonset huts "versus" natural-
> > > > building houses and your apparent contention about the extra amount=
of
show/hide quoted text
> > > > labour involved and mine about looking at that in context with a
> > > > broader picture. I presume you mean prefab cookie-cutter Quonset hu=
> > > > tracts dotting the landscape like a blight? That's not empowerment,
> > > > either; it's a corporate/supplier suckup. You've just removed yet m=
ore
show/hide quoted text
> > > > freedoms in exchange for convenience; A fugly hut. ;)
> > > 4 little pigs
> > > 1 builds a house of straw, next uses sticks, next uses bricks
> > > and I'll add the 4th uses steel.
> > > Who can buy fire insurance?
> > Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation may know (they're referenced
> > in below quotes)http://www.greendesignetc.net/Building_04_(pdf)/Straw%2=
0Bale%20Comfor...
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> > Quote from publication:
> > "Advantages
> > - Superinsulated walls: R50 value vs. R19 wood frame
> > Walls account for +/- 20% of heating load
> > - Soundproof
> > - Storm proof
> > In Wyoming houses have consistently withstood severe weather and
> > earthquakes
> > - Exceptionally Fire proof
> > =A0 =A0 Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
> > =A0 =A0 Enough air for insulation, but not combustion."
> > (Title of publication: 'Straw Bale Comforts: The Three Little Pigs
> > Were Right')
> > "Permits for post & beam houses with infill straw bale walls are very
> > easy to obtain. CMHC has guaranteed mortgages for several straw bale
> > homes across Canada and fire insurance has also been easily obtained."
> > -- Linda Chapman, Architect
> Nifty, seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw-bale_construction
I've been to that link a few times already. :)
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> let's build one.
> Ken
Seriously, I might be looking for this kind of practical experience.
Don't tease me. ;)
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> Wife and I built an anemometer, (we call