Re: Engineering question of the day

	Re: Engineering question of the day

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Re: Engineering question of the day

Kris Krieger

02-21-2008

Re: Engineering question of the day

EDS

02-21-2008

Re: Engineering question of the day

Kris Krieger

02-21-2008

Re: Engineering question of the day

EDS

02-21-2008

Re: Engineering question of the day

Kris Krieger

02-21-2008

If you were Registered and logged in, you could reply and use other advanced thread options

Posted by EDS on February 21, 2008, 8:03 pm

> [ ...]

>>>

>>> Each has their uses. Sometimes, a smaller one is appropriate. Also,

>>> WIsteria can go truely rampant in a mild climate... I don't recall

>>> how they climb - some tendrils can invade morter, and some vines

>>> (IIRC, Trumpet Vine is one) also have sucker-like things that seem to

>>> create a sort of "glue".

>>>

>>> So you have to check the moreter etc. to be sure that you have your

>>> structural integrity intact. I don't recall how long all of this

>>> takes; jsut tht it's a possiblity that makes checking a good idea.

>>>

>>> They do smell great, tho' ;)

>>>

>>>>

>>>> The projects I mentioned just painted the concrete, as wallboarding

>>>> would have added costs. In the 60's nobody talked about insulation.

>>>

>>> THat's true. OTOH, could it be retrofitted...?

>>>

>>>> These were HUD 221d3 blocks and gov't recommended insulation was

>>>> none in the walls and 1" Styrofoam on the roof. The exterior walls

>>>> had condensate on them in the winter and ice in the hallways. Cost

>>>> for each apt. could not to exceed $14,500, or about $20 per square

>>>> foot. Concrete is quieter, but impact (such as high heels on floors)

>>>> comes right through. Hell to hang pictures on also ;-) Don is right,

>>>> the road to Hell is paved with good government intentions. EDS

>>>

>>> True, bare bones like that wouldn't work well at all...

>>>

>> Wisteria climb by wrapping tendrils around trees, fencing, fire

>> escapes, etc. They do grow fast, do not damage masonry.

>> EDS

> Ah, I see, I'm not that familiar with them so I didn't know. I

> remember, when I lived in Columbia, SC many years back, seeing them

> covering phone poles and going across teh wires to travel back down

> trees, and so on - there was one street in particular that was just

> loaded with them, and when they were in bloom, it smelled great :)

> IIRC, there is a black locust (or some sort of locust) that grows fast,

> does not sucker or have thorns, and also have a wonderful scent; had one

> growing outside of a 2nd storey apt window in Canada.

> Still wondering, tho', about the whole modular concrete house thing. It

> seems practical from the standpoint of being termite-proof (a biggie

> down here) and rot proof (another biggie), but would it be practical and

> economical?

We used to dream of extruding concrete houses, but there are some problems:
-To be accurate and be able to piece the thing together, skilled workers
must be used, not the wood knockers used in prefab buildings.
-Weight. Heavy equipment and cranes are needed.
-Public attitude.
I designed a large car wash / lube / detailing building that is just getting
completed. We used a Canadian system (Royal Building System) that has
permanent PVC forms that lock together and hold the reinforcing in place.
The forms are grouted solid to produce an 8" or 6" solid wall. In our case,
we applied a minimum 2" EIFS insulation/stucco facing on the outside. All
interior areas are a smooth white PVC finish. This system is much easier to
manipulate and frankly looks a lot better.
EDS

Posted by Kris Krieger on February 22, 2008, 10:56 am

>>>

>> [ ...]

>>>>

>>>> Each has their uses. Sometimes, a smaller one is appropriate.

>>>> Also, WIsteria can go truely rampant in a mild climate... I don't

>>>> recall how they climb - some tendrils can invade morter, and some

>>>> vines (IIRC, Trumpet Vine is one) also have sucker-like things that

>>>> seem to create a sort of "glue".

>>>>

>>>> So you have to check the moreter etc. to be sure that you have your

>>>> structural integrity intact. I don't recall how long all of this

>>>> takes; jsut tht it's a possiblity that makes checking a good idea.

>>>>

>>>> They do smell great, tho' ;)

>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> The projects I mentioned just painted the concrete, as

>>>>> wallboarding would have added costs. In the 60's nobody talked

>>>>> about insulation.

>>>>

>>>> THat's true. OTOH, could it be retrofitted...?

>>>>

>>>>> These were HUD 221d3 blocks and gov't recommended insulation was

>>>>> none in the walls and 1" Styrofoam on the roof. The exterior walls

>>>>> had condensate on them in the winter and ice in the hallways. Cost

>>>>> for each apt. could not to exceed $14,500, or about $20 per square

>>>>> foot. Concrete is quieter, but impact (such as high heels on

>>>>> floors) comes right through. Hell to hang pictures on also ;-) Don

>>>>> is right, the road to Hell is paved with good government

>>>>> intentions. EDS

>>>>

>>>> True, bare bones like that wouldn't work well at all...

>>>>

>>> Wisteria climb by wrapping tendrils around trees, fencing, fire

>>> escapes, etc. They do grow fast, do not damage masonry.

>>> EDS

>>>

>> Ah, I see, I'm not that familiar with them so I didn't know. I

>> remember, when I lived in Columbia, SC many years back, seeing them

>> covering phone poles and going across teh wires to travel back down

>> trees, and so on - there was one street in particular that was just

>> loaded with them, and when they were in bloom, it smelled great :)

>> IIRC, there is a black locust (or some sort of locust) that grows

>> fast, does not sucker or have thorns, and also have a wonderful

>> scent; had one growing outside of a 2nd storey apt window in Canada.

>> Still wondering, tho', about the whole modular concrete house thing.

>> It seems practical from the standpoint of being termite-proof (a

>> biggie down here) and rot proof (another biggie), but would it be

>> practical and economical?

> We used to dream of extruding concrete houses, but there are some

> problems: -To be accurate and be able to piece the thing together,

> skilled workers must be used, not the wood knockers used in prefab

> buildings. -Weight. Heavy equipment and cranes are needed.

> -Public attitude.

SO, being rare, it'd be impossibly expensive, I guess. :(

> I designed a large car wash / lube / detailing building that is just

> getting completed. We used a Canadian system (Royal Building System)

> that has permanent PVC forms that lock together and hold the

> reinforcing in place. The forms are grouted solid to produce an 8" or

> 6" solid wall. In our case, we applied a minimum 2" EIFS

> insulation/stucco facing on the outside. All interior areas are a

> smooth white PVC finish. This system is much easier to manipulate and

> frankly looks a lot better. EDS

THat sounds practical - just out of curiosity, how is it on the "green"
scale? COme to think of it, is concrete more or less "green" than wood
products (taking into consideration things such as maintenance and
longevity)?

((Heh, my dream, a house I could just hose down on the inside <LOL!>))

Posted by EDS on February 22, 2008, 12:42 pm

>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>> [ ...]

>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> Each has their uses. Sometimes, a smaller one is appropriate.

>>>>> Also, WIsteria can go truely rampant in a mild climate... I don't

>>>>> recall how they climb - some tendrils can invade morter, and some

>>>>> vines (IIRC, Trumpet Vine is one) also have sucker-like things that

>>>>> seem to create a sort of "glue".

>>>>>

>>>>> So you have to check the moreter etc. to be sure that you have your

>>>>> structural integrity intact. I don't recall how long all of this

>>>>> takes; jsut tht it's a possiblity that makes checking a good idea.

>>>>>

>>>>> They do smell great, tho' ;)

>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> The projects I mentioned just painted the concrete, as

>>>>>> wallboarding would have added costs. In the 60's nobody talked

>>>>>> about insulation.

>>>>>

>>>>> THat's true. OTOH, could it be retrofitted...?

>>>>>

>>>>>> These were HUD 221d3 blocks and gov't recommended insulation was

>>>>>> none in the walls and 1" Styrofoam on the roof. The exterior walls

>>>>>> had condensate on them in the winter and ice in the hallways. Cost

>>>>>> for each apt. could not to exceed $14,500, or about $20 per square

>>>>>> foot. Concrete is quieter, but impact (such as high heels on

>>>>>> floors) comes right through. Hell to hang pictures on also ;-) Don

>>>>>> is right, the road to Hell is paved with good government

>>>>>> intentions. EDS

>>>>>

>>>>> True, bare bones like that wouldn't work well at all...

>>>>>

>>>> Wisteria climb by wrapping tendrils around trees, fencing, fire

>>>> escapes, etc. They do grow fast, do not damage masonry.

>>>> EDS

>>>>

>>>

>>> Ah, I see, I'm not that familiar with them so I didn't know. I

>>> remember, when I lived in Columbia, SC many years back, seeing them

>>> covering phone poles and going across teh wires to travel back down

>>> trees, and so on - there was one street in particular that was just

>>> loaded with them, and when they were in bloom, it smelled great :)

>>>

>>> IIRC, there is a black locust (or some sort of locust) that grows

>>> fast, does not sucker or have thorns, and also have a wonderful

>>> scent; had one growing outside of a 2nd storey apt window in Canada.

>>>

>>> Still wondering, tho', about the whole modular concrete house thing.

>>> It seems practical from the standpoint of being termite-proof (a

>>> biggie down here) and rot proof (another biggie), but would it be

>>> practical and economical?

>>>

>> We used to dream of extruding concrete houses, but there are some

>> problems: -To be accurate and be able to piece the thing together,

>> skilled workers must be used, not the wood knockers used in prefab

>> buildings. -Weight. Heavy equipment and cranes are needed.

>> -Public attitude.

> SO, being rare, it'd be impossibly expensive, I guess. :(

>> I designed a large car wash / lube / detailing building that is just

>> getting completed. We used a Canadian system (Royal Building System)

>> that has permanent PVC forms that lock together and hold the

>> reinforcing in place. The forms are grouted solid to produce an 8" or

>> 6" solid wall. In our case, we applied a minimum 2" EIFS

>> insulation/stucco facing on the outside. All interior areas are a

>> smooth white PVC finish. This system is much easier to manipulate and

>> frankly looks a lot better. EDS

> THat sounds practical - just out of curiosity, how is it on the "green"

> scale? COme to think of it, is concrete more or less "green" than wood

> products (taking into consideration things such as maintenance and

> longevity)?

> ((Heh, my dream, a house I could just hose down on the inside <LOL!>))

Why do you think we used it for a car wash?
Concrete is not very green. Lots of energy used to produce Portland cement.
Concrete is not very recyclable. Steel is actually quite green as most of it
is recycled and many times can be reused. Wood is OK as it can be replaced
and often can be reused. The greenest is to live in an old house;-)
EDS

Posted by Kris Krieger on February 22, 2008, 6:33 pm

>>>

>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>> [ ...]

>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Each has their uses. Sometimes, a smaller one is appropriate.

>>>>>> Also, WIsteria can go truely rampant in a mild climate... I

>>>>>> don't recall how they climb - some tendrils can invade morter,

>>>>>> and some vines (IIRC, Trumpet Vine is one) also have sucker-like

>>>>>> things that seem to create a sort of "glue".

>>>>>>

>>>>>> So you have to check the moreter etc. to be sure that you have

>>>>>> your structural integrity intact. I don't recall how long all of

>>>>>> this takes; jsut tht it's a possiblity that makes checking a good

>>>>>> idea.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> They do smell great, tho' ;)

>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> The projects I mentioned just painted the concrete, as

>>>>>>> wallboarding would have added costs. In the 60's nobody talked

>>>>>>> about insulation.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> THat's true. OTOH, could it be retrofitted...?

>>>>>>

>>>>>>> These were HUD 221d3 blocks and gov't recommended insulation was

>>>>>>> none in the walls and 1" Styrofoam on the roof. The exterior

>>>>>>> walls had condensate on them in the winter and ice in the

>>>>>>> hallways. Cost for each apt. could not to exceed $14,500, or

>>>>>>> about $20 per square foot. Concrete is quieter, but impact (such

>>>>>>> as high heels on floors) comes right through. Hell to hang

>>>>>>> pictures on also ;-) Don is right, the road to Hell is paved

>>>>>>> with good government intentions. EDS

>>>>>>

>>>>>> True, bare bones like that wouldn't work well at all...

>>>>>>

>>>>> Wisteria climb by wrapping tendrils around trees, fencing, fire

>>>>> escapes, etc. They do grow fast, do not damage masonry.

>>>>> EDS

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Ah, I see, I'm not that familiar with them so I didn't know. I

>>>> remember, when I lived in Columbia, SC many years back, seeing them

>>>> covering phone poles and going across teh wires to travel back down

>>>> trees, and so on - there was one street in particular that was just

>>>> loaded with them, and when they were in bloom, it smelled great :)

>>>>

>>>> IIRC, there is a black locust (or some sort of locust) that grows

>>>> fast, does not sucker or have thorns, and also have a wonderful

>>>> scent; had one growing outside of a 2nd storey apt window in

>>>> Canada.

>>>>

>>>> Still wondering, tho', about the whole modular concrete house

>>>> thing. It seems practical from the standpoint of being

>>>> termite-proof (a biggie down here) and rot proof (another biggie),

>>>> but would it be practical and economical?

>>>>

>>> We used to dream of extruding concrete houses, but there are some

>>> problems: -To be accurate and be able to piece the thing together,

>>> skilled workers must be used, not the wood knockers used in prefab

>>> buildings. -Weight. Heavy equipment and cranes are needed.

>>> -Public attitude.

>> SO, being rare, it'd be impossibly expensive, I guess. :(

>>> I designed a large car wash / lube / detailing building that is just

>>> getting completed. We used a Canadian system (Royal Building System)

>>> that has permanent PVC forms that lock together and hold the

>>> reinforcing in place. The forms are grouted solid to produce an 8"

>>> or 6" solid wall. In our case, we applied a minimum 2" EIFS

>>> insulation/stucco facing on the outside. All interior areas are a

>>> smooth white PVC finish. This system is much easier to manipulate

>>> and frankly looks a lot better. EDS

>> THat sounds practical - just out of curiosity, how is it on the

>> "green" scale? COme to think of it, is concrete more or less "green"

>> than wood products (taking into consideration things such as

>> maintenance and longevity)?

>> ((Heh, my dream, a house I could just hose down on the inside

>> <LOL!>))

> Why do you think we used it for a car wash?

> Concrete is not very green. Lots of energy used to produce Portland

> cement. Concrete is not very recyclable. Steel is actually quite green

> as most of it is recycled and many times can be reused. Wood is OK as

> it can be replaced and often can be reused. The greenest is to live in

> an old house;-) EDS

Good to know re: concrete, thanks for the info!

Posted by ++ on February 22, 2008, 6:36 pm

Kris Krieger wrote:

>>>

>>>>I designed a large car wash / lube / detailing building that is just

>>>>getting completed. We used a Canadian system (Royal Building System)

>>>>that has permanent PVC forms that lock together and hold the

>>>>reinforcing in place. The forms are grouted solid to produce an 8"

>>>>or 6" solid wall. In our case, we applied a minimum 2" EIFS

>>>>insulation/stucco facing on the outside. All interior areas are a

>>>>smooth white PVC finish. This system is much easier to manipulate

>>>>and frankly looks a lot better. EDS

>>>>

>>>THat sounds practical - just out of curiosity, how is it on the

>>>"green" scale? COme to think of it, is concrete more or less "green"

>>>than wood products (taking into consideration things such as

>>>maintenance and longevity)?

>>>

>>>((Heh, my dream, a house I could just hose down on the inside

>>><LOL!>))

>>>

>>Why do you think we used it for a car wash?

>>Concrete is not very green. Lots of energy used to produce Portland

>>cement. Concrete is not very recyclable. Steel is actually quite green

>>as most of it is recycled and many times can be reused. Wood is OK as

>>it can be replaced and often can be reused. The greenest is to live in

>>an old house;-) EDS

>Good to know re: concrete, thanks for the info!

Consider the precast concrete Roman foundations and earthworks including
pipes over two millenia old . However green, longevity counts as you
are not wasting through replacing.

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