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Re: Old building methods for modern buildings? Kris Krieger 11-17-2007
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Posted by Kris Krieger on November 17, 2007, 4:13 pm

>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have had the chance to travel and have seen that in some countries
>> there are some effective solutions to keeping a building cool, warm
>> or simply making them work in the environment they are in. Contrast
>> this to some modern buildings which seem to ignore completely the
>> environment in which they are present. Some of the design issue I see
>> are:
>> - buildings which have roofs that aren't designed for the amount of
>> rain or snow
>> - inefficient design for cooling
>>
>> In some of the counties I have visited I have seen, as smart of use
>> of 'technology' (does not have to be modern):
>> - tall rooms for keeping spaces cool
>> - large vertical chimneys that rise up beyond the building that are
>> designed to capture the moving wind, to extract the warm air in the
>> buildings
>> - stilts that help keep the building away from the damp and help
>> cooling of the building
>> - roofs that slant to reduce the impact of snow and rain on the
>> building
>>
>> These are just a few, though I would be curious to see what seemingly
>> simple building techniques that you have seen elsewhere that could be
>> used in our new buildings, to help them better fit into its climate.
>
> This is not a traditional-vs-modern debate. Many old buildings are
> awfully stupid too.

I thknk the point was not traditional-versus-modern, but rather, not
simply throwing away ideas that work well, merely because they don't
appear to be new. ((I say "appear to be" only because it seems to happen
fairly often that "new" ideas are basically reinterpretations or
rediscoveries of "old" ideas.))

Often, people do get so caught-up in being "new", that they rush into it
and don't think enough about what actually works.


IOW, I think the OP's point was about *blending* traditional and modern
techniques so as to make the best use of what *works* in a given climate.

For example, I remember driving through newly-built areas in Inland
Southern California, and seeing not one single extended eave, or one
single porch, or *anything* that hinted at being an overhang. That was
just stupid, given the climate and the cost (both financial and
environmental) of wasted air-conditioning.

effeciency and comfort are ebst served when what's used is what works,
and that means both developing new techniques/designs, *and* adapting
past-and-proven techniques/designs.



Posted by Michael Bulatovich on November 18, 2007, 5:35 pm

>
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I have had the chance to travel and have seen that in some countries
>>> there are some effective solutions to keeping a building cool, warm
>>> or simply making them work in the environment they are in. Contrast
>>> this to some modern buildings which seem to ignore completely the
>>> environment in which they are present. Some of the design issue I see
>>> are:
>>> - buildings which have roofs that aren't designed for the amount of
>>> rain or snow
>>> - inefficient design for cooling
>>>
>>> In some of the counties I have visited I have seen, as smart of use
>>> of 'technology' (does not have to be modern):
>>> - tall rooms for keeping spaces cool
>>> - large vertical chimneys that rise up beyond the building that are
>>> designed to capture the moving wind, to extract the warm air in the
>>> buildings
>>> - stilts that help keep the building away from the damp and help
>>> cooling of the building
>>> - roofs that slant to reduce the impact of snow and rain on the
>>> building
>>>
>>> These are just a few, though I would be curious to see what seemingly
>>> simple building techniques that you have seen elsewhere that could be
>>> used in our new buildings, to help them better fit into its climate.
>>
>> This is not a traditional-vs-modern debate. Many old buildings are
>> awfully stupid too.
>
> I thknk the point was not traditional-versus-modern, but rather, not
> simply throwing away ideas that work well, merely because they don't
> appear to be new.

Maybe so, but that's how it looks to me. Anyone who knows me knows I am not
a modernist-right-or-wrong, so I'm not sticking up for modernism..... just
pointing out some conceptual imprecision. If you look at them with the
intent to do so, you can find many 'silly' things in traditional building
too. More wherever people have enough in resources to play the "my branch
is higher than your branch, you stupid tree monkey" game.
--


MichaelB
www.michaelbulatovich.ca



Posted by Kris Krieger on November 20, 2007, 5:35 pm

>
>>
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I have had the chance to travel and have seen that in some
>>>> countries there are some effective solutions to keeping a building
>>>> cool, warm or simply making them work in the environment they are
>>>> in. Contrast this to some modern buildings which seem to ignore
>>>> completely the environment in which they are present. Some of the
>>>> design issue I see are:
>>>> - buildings which have roofs that aren't designed for the amount
>>>> of
>>>> rain or snow
>>>> - inefficient design for cooling
>>>>
>>>> In some of the counties I have visited I have seen, as smart of use
>>>> of 'technology' (does not have to be modern):
>>>> - tall rooms for keeping spaces cool
>>>> - large vertical chimneys that rise up beyond the building that are
>>>> designed to capture the moving wind, to extract the warm air in the
>>>> buildings
>>>> - stilts that help keep the building away from the damp and help
>>>> cooling of the building
>>>> - roofs that slant to reduce the impact of snow and rain on the
>>>> building
>>>>
>>>> These are just a few, though I would be curious to see what
>>>> seemingly simple building techniques that you have seen elsewhere
>>>> that could be used in our new buildings, to help them better fit
>>>> into its climate.
>>>
>>> This is not a traditional-vs-modern debate. Many old buildings are
>>> awfully stupid too.
>>
>> I thknk the point was not traditional-versus-modern, but rather, not
>> simply throwing away ideas that work well, merely because they don't
>> appear to be new.
>
> Maybe so, but that's how it looks to me. Anyone who knows me knows I
> am not a modernist-right-or-wrong, so I'm not sticking up for
> modernism..... just pointing out some conceptual imprecision. If you
> look at them with the intent to do so, you can find many 'silly'
> things in traditional building too. More wherever people have enough
> in resources to play the "my branch is higher than your branch, you
> stupid tree monkey" game.

I don't go for that, either. I think that it's possible (if not easy) to
achieve a balance between traditional/indigenous mehtods that work, AND
modern methods that work. Stylistic integrity is also IMO achievable in
this, but it does take attention. THe worst thing, IMO, is to combine
methods that don't work, and then call the leaky hodgepodge
"fashionable" ;)


Posted by per.corell@privat.dk on November 21, 2007, 7:18 am
>
>
>
>
>
> >> Hi,
>
> >> I have had the chance to travel and have seen that in some countries
> >> there are some effective solutions to keeping a building cool, warm
> >> or simply making them work in the environment they are in. Contrast
> >> this to some modern buildings which seem to ignore completely the
> >> environment in which they are present. Some of the design issue I see
> >> are:
> >> - buildings which have roofs that aren't designed for the amount of
> >> rain or snow
> >> - inefficient design for cooling
>
> >> In some of the counties I have visited I have seen, as smart of use
> >> of 'technology' (does not have to be modern):
> >> - tall rooms for keeping spaces cool
> >> - large vertical chimneys that rise up beyond the building that are
> >> designed to capture the moving wind, to extract the warm air in the
> >> buildings
> >> - stilts that help keep the building away from the damp and help
> >> cooling of the building
> >> - roofs that slant to reduce the impact of snow and rain on the
> >> building
>
> >> These are just a few, though I would be curious to see what seemingly
> >> simple building techniques that you have seen elsewhere that could be
> >> used in our new buildings, to help them better fit into its climate.
>
> > This is not a traditional-vs-modern debate. Many old buildings are
> > awfully stupid too.
>
> I thknk the point was not traditional-versus-modern, but rather, not
> simply throwing away ideas that work well, merely because they don't
> appear to be new. ((I say "appear to be" only because it seems to happen
> fairly often that "new" ideas are basically reinterpretations or
> rediscoveries of "old" ideas.))
>
> Often, people do get so caught-up in being "new", that they rush into it
> and don't think enough about what actually works.
>
> IOW, I think the OP's point was about *blending* traditional and modern
> techniques so as to make the best use of what *works* in a given climate.
>
> For example, I remember driving through newly-built areas in Inland
> Southern California, and seeing not one single extended eave, or one
> single porch, or *anything* that hinted at being an overhang. That was
> just stupid, given the climate and the cost (both financial and
> environmental) of wasted air-conditioning.
>
> effeciency and comfort are ebst served when what's used is what works,
> and that means both developing new techniques/designs, *and* adapting
> past-and-proven techniques/designs.

Sorry I reply to the first post, but many true things are said in this
tread and it is difficult to reply many ,by adding to the end of the
treads. When that is said ,please remember that there are new
methods , methods that realy are unique and deliver --- but all the
wrongs of other new methods so often are used against those few but
genuine ones.
---- We all has our Pony's , and you wouldn't belive what resistance a
new method meet --- often irelavant critics, often critics that
indicate that the one critisising, has in fact not read what you said.
Also I can say after many years of explaing a new method on the web,
that some guy's don't care if that new method realy are so
wonderfull ; if it challance their pony, the attacks become hush, when
arguments are answered the critic turn into personal attacks, personal
attacks that uncover the ignorance uncover what the new has against
it, and sorry to say it happen that those who know the least who has
totaly misunderstood, end up writing dirty personal mails, mails that
allway's newer respond to the method, but is allway's personal
attacks.

With the method I promote, I even experienced people who arogantly
claimed it don't work, then when others copied it , I did not invent
it, but that it was invented decades ago -- then when I proved it
could not be done without computers, and there was no other method
capable of that what this method could perform, then the same ones
who first claimed it didn't work, and later claimed I didn't invent
it , started a rear campain , a campain that was nothing but personal
attacks.

So please remember this, when you polish your pony, --- there are
newthinking out there, but it is not all who apriciate it, only few
who understand that it is no challance towerds what we allready has,
and that you must have an open mind .

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