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Posted by Warm Worm on January 5, 2008, 6:26 am
>
>> Kris Krieger wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> If you possess mp3 files you may be in violation of the law.
>>>>>> No, you can't rip a CD you purchased to mp3 format on your
>>>>>> computer. If you are out in public with an mp3 player you could be
>>>>>> arrested on the spot for suspicion of possession of copywritten
>>>>>> material. Copies of copywritten material are considered
>>>>>> *unauthorized* copies. So what is an example of an *authorized*
>>>>>> copy?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,319276,00.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If your mp3 player has lithium batteries you could be suspected of
>>>>>> being a tarriss.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119911051123859361.html?mod=googlen
>>>>>> ew s_wsj
>>>>> http://fusionanomaly.net/vinylisstealing.gif
>>>> I think thats exactly where all of this is going.
>>>> There is nothing unique or artistic about a CD.
>>>> Its just a mechanical copy of what might be considered an artistic
>>>> expression.
>>>> I deal with one-of-a-kind creations and people pay me thousands of
>>>> dollars for each one.
>>>> *They cannot be repeated as each one is unique.*
>>>> It takes an especially mediocre mind to twist itself in knots over a
>>>> thing that can be purchased online for 88 cents - an mp3 file.
>>>> If these so-called artists created unique works of art, live
>>>> performances, they would find the copyrighting issues disappearing
>>>> over night. But then, they'd actually have to *work* to produce
>>>> their income rather than relying on royalties.
>>>
>>> From my perspective, it's not about royalties etc., it's about
>>> putting the time, effort, creativity, etc. into composing or writing
>>> something, and then having someone else copy it, and claim it as
>>> their own.
>> > It only adds insult to injury if they turn around and make money
>> > from it.
>>
>> Seriously considering undertaking anything in a complex and dynamic
>> world would seem to inspire a few more perspectives, if only to,
>> ideally, get a better handle on reality.
>>
>> And what if everyone knew that making copies and $ from your work was
>> a possibility? Would that change anything and, if so, how, why and for
>> whom, etc.?
>
> I explained in the paragraphs below.
>
>>
>>> If I give someone free copies of my compositionsm or writings, that's
>>> one thing, but I don't like the idea of them turning around and
>>> giving free copies to the entire world.
>>
>> You don't have to like it, but if you're going to, say, compose music
>> and stockpile all your notation in open-air, unlocked buildings in
>> every town around the world, the wind is going to blow it all about,
>> and some people are going to pick it up and do something with it--
>> maybe sell them as-is; do live shows with them; or compose original
>> scores, as inspired by them. What fun!
>
> No, that is still my choice.
>
> I don't oppose personal enjoyment. I also am not necessarily opposed to
> copies, as long as attribution is kept with the work.
>
> Selling is another matter. It just seems a bit unethical to me to sell
> someone else's work.
Agreed.
> It's sort oflike the GNU licensed programs. THey're free, but only with
> the understanding that they won't be 'relabelled' and sold.
> A different thing is only charging for the CD and postage. It costs a
> certain amount to buy a CD, package it, and mail it. But that is not
> 'selling the work", that's just saying, "I'll mail you this neat stuff if
> you send me enough to cover the packaging and mailing".
You could sell support for the product too, or a password that allows access
to music or software updates.
> Which, of course, is why I'm not, and never will be, rich - I don't see
> life as one big money-making opportunity. Rather than thinking, "Oh,
> hey, I can sell this work", I'm mroe like, "Oh, hey, glad you liked, it,
> come over for a burger, it'd be great if you could pick up a six of beer
> and bring it..."
If the burger was decent-- maybe on a crusty French bun, and you offered
white wine Dijon mustard, fresh tomatoes, onions, leaves of spinache and
gourmet olive-oil-mayo, and maybe some deli-style cole-slaw to go along with
it, I'd consider the beer.
> People don't think 'm like that, because I don't communicate well in
> person.
Well, we all have our off-days in that regard, which I suppose can fluctuate
from individual-to-individual.
> Thank goodness, ebcause fI have the unfortunate habit of being a
> bit easy to take advantage of <LOL!>
Then a gourmet burger it is... I'll be expecting my plane seat-reservation
by mail... A 4-star for 2 nights should be fine.
>>> DIstribution ought to be up to me.
>>
>> If it were, I might never get to discover, enjoy, and be inspired by
>> your work. That kind of dynamic, it is argued, is what enriches
>> creativity and culture more than keeping everything under lock & key.
>
> But I never said anything about keeping things under lock and key.
Oh ok, good. You had me worried there for a minute.
>> BTW, I seem to suddenly recall enjoying one or two of your
>> compositions. Keep it up-- and online. :)
>
> Well, if I can keep Windows from crashing long enough to get more work
> done on my website, and then upload the thing... =:-o
My cracked Photoshop keeps quitting on me! I'm trying to learn the GIMP, I
really am! ;)
> I haven't composed in a long time, tho'.
Me neither... I spent some time a couple of nights ago researching
professional-quality external sound-cards with surprisingly little headway.
Turtle Beach? Creative Labs? Anyway, I'll have to keep looking. I'm sure
they're out there.
> I go through phases. I guess it'd also help if I empty out th emoving
> boxes that are on top of the
> keyboard...<AHEM...> Actually, I'm fibbing, I can't play worth beans and
> tend to "build" music.
That's fine, and is kind of what I do too, although I can still play
rudimentarily, if that's a word.
Listening to all this fine online open source electronic music from
different countries is beginning to get me wanting to get back into the
groove again-- this time with a laptop. Last time, it was with an Ensoniq
SQ80, a Korg Poly 800 and Fostex X15.
> Most typically, I'l dream something, and then try to reconstruct it if I
> remember it after waking up.
> Long process.
Really? That's different... although, sometimes when I wake up, I have these
terrible and cheesy tunes in my head that I sometimes whistle out loud to
get them out... the kind maybe that a kid, their grandmother and a
children's tv show executive might get together and create.
> Second most typical, I jsut "hear" something in my head and then try to
> build or reconstruct it. Also tedious. I need programs that just read
> my mind directly! OTOH, that might end up being more like "Chiller
> Theater" <LOL!>
Do they serve iced lattes?
I wouldn't mind experimenting with some software that I've heard supposedly
composes by itself, based on fractal and other algorithms I think.
I could take the bits I liked and merge and layer them with other bits.
I like the idea of music that morphs, yet stays true to its basic idea.
Consider, as a small, simple example, having a snare drum sound that changes
per beat, rather like how it would be if someone replaced the drummer's
snare drum before each subsequent strike with another snare of a different
make, model and maybe tightness.
>>> But even that would be passable as long as I got attribution.
>>> Copyright used to be about attribution (or, at least, that's what I'd
>>> thought...) More an dmore, it's about money - as is pretty much
>>> everything else =:-p
If or when I get back into music composition and recording, I might throw
some my pieces out anonymously and for free "just for the thing of it".
However, attribution for the most part might be preferrable. (Maybe I can in
some way voice-mark each song.)
|
|
Posted by Kris Krieger on January 7, 2008, 2:37 pm
>
>>
>>> Kris Krieger wrote:
[ ... ]
>>>> If I give someone free copies of my compositionsm or writings,
>>>> that's one thing, but I don't like the idea of them turning around
>>>> and giving free copies to the entire world.
>>>
>>> You don't have to like it, but if you're going to, say, compose
>>> music and stockpile all your notation in open-air, unlocked
>>> buildings in every town around the world, the wind is going to blow
>>> it all about, and some people are going to pick it up and do
>>> something with it-- maybe sell them as-is; do live shows with them;
>>> or compose original scores, as inspired by them. What fun!
>>
>> No, that is still my choice.
>>
>> I don't oppose personal enjoyment. I also am not necessarily opposed
>> to copies, as long as attribution is kept with the work.
>>
>> Selling is another matter. It just seems a bit unethical to me to
>> sell someone else's work.
>
> Agreed.
>
>> It's sort oflike the GNU licensed programs. THey're free, but only
>> with the understanding that they won't be 'relabelled' and sold.
>> A different thing is only charging for the CD and postage. It costs
>> a certain amount to buy a CD, package it, and mail it. But that is
>> not 'selling the work", that's just saying, "I'll mail you this neat
>> stuff if you send me enough to cover the packaging and mailing".
>
> You could sell support for the product too, or a password that allows
> access to music or software updates.
Music updates...? I don't see how that would work. But for GNU
software, as an example, you can just go to teh webiste to get any
updates. A software update would mean additional code, and part of the
GNU license (since we're talking about free distribution) is that nobody
can turn around and sell updates/code alterations. If someone wants to
sell software, tehy have to write their own.
SO, for music, I could deal with somehting like the GNU license. Similar
thing to a lot of JavaScript snippts - if you use someone's script,
you're supposed to incldu eattribution in a Comments section of your HTML
source code.
Support would prob be differnt, because what you are actually sellingis
your own knowledge/skill (and time spent acquiring it).
>
>> Which, of course, is why I'm not, and never will be, rich - I don't
>> see life as one big money-making opportunity. Rather than thinking,
>> "Oh, hey, I can sell this work", I'm mroe like, "Oh, hey, glad you
>> liked, it, come over for a burger, it'd be great if you could pick up
>> a six of beer and bring it..."
>
> If the burger was decent-- maybe on a crusty French bun, and you
> offered white wine Dijon mustard, fresh tomatoes, onions, leaves of
> spinache and gourmet olive-oil-mayo, and maybe some deli-style
> cole-slaw to go along with it, I'd consider the beer.
Jeez, pickyu picky! <LOL!>
I make my own mustard... No mayo or vinegar, either, sorry ;)
>
>> People don't think 'm like that, because I don't communicate well in
>> person.
>
> Well, we all have our off-days in that regard, which I suppose can
> fluctuate from individual-to-individual.
I've been diagnosed with Asperger's. Personally, I think there is far
too much "syndromization" of what IMO are merely natural human
differences, but it's easier for most people to wrap their minds around a
syndrome, than it is for them to merely accept the fact that nto all
people are identical - IOW that we're individual human beings, not ants
(well, at least, not ALL of us ;) !)
>
>> Thank goodness, ebcause fI have the unfortunate habit of being a
>> bit easy to take advantage of <LOL!>
>
> Then a gourmet burger it is... I'll be expecting my plane
> seat-reservation by mail... A 4-star for 2 nights should be fine.
<LOL!> Not THAT easy! ;)
>
>>>> DIstribution ought to be up to me.
>>>
>>> If it were, I might never get to discover, enjoy, and be inspired by
>>> your work. That kind of dynamic, it is argued, is what enriches
>>> creativity and culture more than keeping everything under lock &
>>> key.
>>
>> But I never said anything about keeping things under lock and key.
>
> Oh ok, good. You had me worried there for a minute.
Nah. I don't *seek* public exposure (no comments from the peanut
gallery...), but I also don't fear it. SOme peopl ehave liked some of my
stuff (music and writings), some have hated some of it. It's liek
anything else, tho' - beauty is in the eye (or ear ;) ) of the beholder,
and it's not a huge ego thing for me if someone doesn't like something.
I actually like true critiques, because they help me to improve. What
does bother me is simple/simplistic disparagement, such as "that's
stupid", but it doesn;ty bother me becuase my ego gets bruised, it
bothers me because such statements say nothing about the work and
everything about the person making the meaningless statement (IOW, it's a
waste of time to even hear it).
>
>>> BTW, I seem to suddenly recall enjoying one or two of your
>>> compositions. Keep it up-- and online. :)
>>
>> Well, if I can keep Windows from crashing long enough to get more
>> work done on my website, and then upload the thing... =:-o
>
> My cracked Photoshop keeps quitting on me! I'm trying to learn the
> GIMP, I really am! ;)
Heh!
>
>> I haven't composed in a long time, tho'.
>
> Me neither... I spent some time a couple of nights ago researching
> professional-quality external sound-cards with surprisingly little
> headway. Turtle Beach? Creative Labs? Anyway, I'll have to keep
> looking. I'm sure they're out there.
THe whole topic is IMO a quagmire. I recall something called "Oxygen"
tat is suppsoed to be top-notch, or at least, was top-notch a few years
back. What ties me up is not the sound card as much as the mechanics of
mixing and format and so on. Heck, I've been trying to figure out how th
eheck to simply save my MIDI files as MP3 files... I'd gotten some
software that said it'd save t MP3, btu all it saves is bleep-bleeped
bleeper-bleeping CD rips. I have no interest in ripping CDs, I want to
MAKE CDs. Most of the advice I've gotten seems to inviolve the purchase
of about $3K of equipment...it's insane.
I haven't looked into playing and recording, then integrating that into
MIDI files, because I've lost my ability to play - I used to play
Classical guitar, and quite well to be honest, but that was many years
ago. So I only compose in the computer.
What do you do? Perform and record, compose, ...? ANything posted
online? I'd be interested in giving it a listen. I like exapmpels of
most things, tho' to be honest, I'm not a fan of the vast majority of
rap. And Country is not one of my favorites. Aside form that, I'm
pretty eclectic in my tastes, and will give any music a chance.
>
>> I go through phases. I guess it'd also help if I empty out th
>> emoving boxes that are on top of the
>> keyboard...<AHEM...> Actually, I'm fibbing, I can't play worth beans
>> and tend to "build" music.
>
> That's fine, and is kind of what I do too, although I can still play
> rudimentarily, if that's a word.
I think it is, but that's not reliable ;)
> Listening to all this fine online open source electronic music from
> different countries is beginning to get me wanting to get back into
> the groove again-- this time with a laptop. Last time, it was with an
> Ensoniq SQ80, a Korg Poly 800 and Fostex X15.
THat's beyone my vocabulary, to be honest. I just use a Creative card -
teh one in htis machine is an Audigy 4, which I got because ti's suppsoed
to be capable of carrying more voices - some of my mroe "dense" ditties
would "skip" on my old Sound Blaster Live.
ANything mroe expensive is dicey, because I'm not makingmoney off of any
of this, and things such as hosehold expenses and retirement savings ceom
in first, second, third, and fourth above hobby expenses ;) But if I
ever won the Lottery (assuming I ever remember to buy a ticket <L!>), I'd
look into getting something that I could use to create good-quality CDs.
>
>> Most typically, I'l dream something, and then try to reconstruct it
>> if I remember it after waking up.
>> Long process.
>
> Really? That's different... although, sometimes when I wake up, I have
> these terrible and cheesy tunes in my head that I sometimes whistle
> out loud to get them out... the kind maybe that a kid, their
> grandmother and a children's tv show executive might get together and
> create.
>
>> Second most typical, I jsut "hear" something in my head and then try
>> to build or reconstruct it. Also tedious. I need programs that just
>> read my mind directly! OTOH, that might end up being more like
>> "Chiller Theater" <LOL!>
>
> Do they serve iced lattes?
I dunno, esp. since I'm actually not completely sure what it is that
makes a Latte, a latte... Yes, it's true, I'm a Coffeegnoramus...
> I wouldn't mind experimenting with some software that I've heard
> supposedly composes by itself, based on fractal and other algorithms I
> think. I could take the bits I liked and merge and layer them with
> other bits.
SUre, why not! One thing I've done is jot down (so to speak) snippets
that cross my mind, and save them. THere was one bit that i saved for
about 9 years before I finally got an inspiration re: what to do with it.
You never know.
OTOH, I've played with the graphic version of something similar (inmage
effects), and the potential pitfall is getting so entranced by the
"little pretties" that one is sidetrackied away from actually creating.
> I like the idea of music that morphs, yet stays true to
> its basic idea. Consider, as a small, simple example, having a snare
> drum sound that changes per beat, rather like how it would be if
> someone replaced the drummer's snare drum before each subsequent
> strike with another snare of a different make, model and maybe
> tightness.
In a way, that's the concept of "theme and variations". Jazz and
Classical both use that a lot - the composer starts with something, and
then morphs it, yet retains a recognizable core/characteristic
throughout.
>
>>>> But even that would be passable as long as I got attribution.
>>>> Copyright used to be about attribution (or, at least, that's what
>>>> I'd thought...) More an dmore, it's about money - as is pretty
>>>> much everything else =:-p
>
> If or when I get back into music composition and recording, I might
> throw some my pieces out anonymously and for free "just for the thing
> of it". However, attribution for the most part might be preferrable.
> (Maybe I can in some way voice-mark each song.)
It's been a while since I've checked, but IIRC, there was a company
called Koan that put out software thatd encrypt your music file, which
could then only be played back with their player. THe player was free
and had a very small footprint, so it wouldn't be a big deal for people
to download.
However, also IIRC, Cakewalk software allows you to embed comments into
your MIDI (??and MP3??) files.
Im not overly-egotistical, but I *am* egotistical enough so that I'd want
attribution <G!>
|
|
Posted by Edgar on January 7, 2008, 5:58 pm
>
>>
>>>
>>>> Kris Krieger wrote:
> [ ... ]
>
>>>>> If I give someone free copies of my compositionsm or writings,
>>>>> that's one thing, but I don't like the idea of them turning around
>>>>> and giving free copies to the entire world.
>>>>
>>>> You don't have to like it, but if you're going to, say, compose
>>>> music and stockpile all your notation in open-air, unlocked
>>>> buildings in every town around the world, the wind is going to blow
>>>> it all about, and some people are going to pick it up and do
>>>> something with it-- maybe sell them as-is; do live shows with them;
>>>> or compose original scores, as inspired by them. What fun!
>>>
>>> No, that is still my choice.
>>>
>>> I don't oppose personal enjoyment. I also am not necessarily opposed
>>> to copies, as long as attribution is kept with the work.
>>>
>>> Selling is another matter. It just seems a bit unethical to me to
>>> sell someone else's work.
>>
>> Agreed.
>>
>>> It's sort oflike the GNU licensed programs. THey're free, but only
>>> with the understanding that they won't be 'relabelled' and sold.
>>> A different thing is only charging for the CD and postage. It costs
>>> a certain amount to buy a CD, package it, and mail it. But that is
>>> not 'selling the work", that's just saying, "I'll mail you this neat
>>> stuff if you send me enough to cover the packaging and mailing".
>>
>> You could sell support for the product too, or a password that allows
>> access to music or software updates.
>
> Music updates...? I don't see how that would work. But for GNU
> software, as an example, you can just go to teh webiste to get any
> updates. A software update would mean additional code, and part of the
> GNU license (since we're talking about free distribution) is that nobody
> can turn around and sell updates/code alterations. If someone wants to
> sell software, tehy have to write their own.
>
> SO, for music, I could deal with somehting like the GNU license. Similar
> thing to a lot of JavaScript snippts - if you use someone's script,
> you're supposed to incldu eattribution in a Comments section of your HTML
> source code.
>
> Support would prob be differnt, because what you are actually sellingis
> your own knowledge/skill (and time spent acquiring it).
>
>>
If your music were like GNU software, you would put it out there for free,
other people would take it for free, and if they changed it, they would
provide you with the changes. And people could charge for the CD burning
and the "support" for the product. You would basically be giving away free
copies to the entire world, and would be saying "here world make it better
if you can, just let me know what you did, and make sure my name is on it".
--
Edgar
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
|
Posted by Kris Krieger on January 10, 2008, 2:34 pm
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Kris Krieger wrote:
>> [ ... ]
>>
>>>>>> If I give someone free copies of my compositionsm or writings,
>>>>>> that's one thing, but I don't like the idea of them turning
>>>>>> around and giving free copies to the entire world.
>>>>>
>>>>> You don't have to like it, but if you're going to, say, compose
>>>>> music and stockpile all your notation in open-air, unlocked
>>>>> buildings in every town around the world, the wind is going to
>>>>> blow it all about, and some people are going to pick it up and do
>>>>> something with it-- maybe sell them as-is; do live shows with
>>>>> them; or compose original scores, as inspired by them. What fun!
>>>>
>>>> No, that is still my choice.
>>>>
>>>> I don't oppose personal enjoyment. I also am not necessarily
>>>> opposed to copies, as long as attribution is kept with the work.
>>>>
>>>> Selling is another matter. It just seems a bit unethical to me to
>>>> sell someone else's work.
>>>
>>> Agreed.
>>>
>>>> It's sort oflike the GNU licensed programs. THey're free, but only
>>>> with the understanding that they won't be 'relabelled' and sold.
>>>> A different thing is only charging for the CD and postage. It
>>>> costs a certain amount to buy a CD, package it, and mail it. But
>>>> that is not 'selling the work", that's just saying, "I'll mail you
>>>> this neat stuff if you send me enough to cover the packaging and
>>>> mailing".
>>>
>>> You could sell support for the product too, or a password that
>>> allows access to music or software updates.
>>
>> Music updates...? I don't see how that would work. But for GNU
>> software, as an example, you can just go to teh webiste to get any
>> updates. A software update would mean additional code, and part of
>> the GNU license (since we're talking about free distribution) is that
>> nobody can turn around and sell updates/code alterations. If someone
>> wants to sell software, tehy have to write their own.
>>
>> SO, for music, I could deal with somehting like the GNU license.
>> Similar thing to a lot of JavaScript snippts - if you use someone's
>> script, you're supposed to incldu eattribution in a Comments section
>> of your HTML source code.
>>
>> Support would prob be differnt, because what you are actually
>> sellingis your own knowledge/skill (and time spent acquiring it).
>>
>>>
>
>
> If your music were like GNU software, you would put it out there for
> free, other people would take it for free, and if they changed it,
> they would provide you with the changes. And people could charge for
> the CD burning and the "support" for the product. You would basically
> be giving away free copies to the entire world, and would be saying
> "here world make it better if you can, just let me know what you did,
> and make sure my name is on it".
>
That's sort of what I said...
At the same time, I won't pretend that I wouldn't like some $$ if I could
get it <LOL!>
|
|
Posted by Kris Krieger on January 7, 2008, 2:42 pm
> "Warm Worm"> wrote
>> That's fine, and is kind of what I do too, although I can still play
>> rudimentarily, if that's a word.
>> Listening to all this fine online open source electronic music from
>> different countries is beginning to get me wanting to get back into
>> the groove again-- this time with a laptop. Last time, it was with an
>> Ensoniq SQ80, a Korg Poly 800 and Fostex X15.
>
> Get serious with it, go get a real instrument of some sort.
> There's something missing in the *push button* arena that can't be
> replicated.
> Its that connection in your soul, right in there where you live, that
> makes music.
> You gotta *feel* it - it'll move you.
Oh, playing is great, no doubt about that, but composing is a different
facet of it. Beethoven composed even after he went deaf, which made
playing irrelevant.
>
> Grabbing an instrument for the first time ever is a shot of adrenaline
> that sort of lines all the synapses in single file - laser beam focus.
> Hearing can blind you.
> Finding the *patterns* and running with it.
> Realizing what it is, make it be what you want.
>
> What can this strange device be?
> When I touch it, it gives forth a sound.
> Its got wires that vibrate and give music.
> What can this thing be that I found?
It's an extension of the self, of, if you will, the soul. IMO, at least.
When you get good with something, it's like having an extra hand, but
better. THat's how it'd be to fly, and that's how music is. I used to
play a lot more, and keep thinking that some day, I'll save up and get
myself an oboe (a good oboe). THat was great, it was like singing, except
better, since I couldn't sing all that well ;) Guitar is also great.
Well, ANY musical instrument is.
It also helps keep your mind sharp, yoru fingers moving, and your heart
young :)
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