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Re: The value of shopping local Amy Blankenship 11-11-2007
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Posted by Amy Blankenship on November 15, 2007, 1:53 pm

...
>> You know, I find the most interesting thing in that article the fact that
>> so many Finns want to be teachers. I had a several day long conversation
>> with a colleague last week over something similar. He said that it is
>> best to learn something from a course, because you don't know what you
>> need to know until you take the course. I said it is best to learn on
>> your own, because if someone is teaching a technical subject, it is
>> pretty much a given that they don't know enough about it to be useful,
>> since the experts are out there doing it. If you're lucky the experts
>> will blog about it, but they are not sitting down and making up courses
>> and they are _certainly_ not taking time out to teach.
>
> Thats the long version of;
> Those that CAN, do, those that CAN'T, teach.
> Teaching is the 2nd most common college degree these days.
> Right after journalism.
> About 5 years ago females passed males in number of degrees earned each
> year.
> 70% of people with degrees do NOT work under that degree.

And that is a good thing. I am reading a book called "The Medici Effect",
which suggests that the best opportunities for creativity come from stepping
outside your comfort zone.



Posted by Kris Krieger on November 21, 2007, 4:53 pm

> Amy Blankenship wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Have you looked at what countries that don't have publicly funded
>>>>>> educational systems are like?
>>>>> You're an expert at ignoring the obvious and unanswering
>>>>> questions.... If you're such a fan of other countries why don't
>>>>> you live in one of them?
>>>>> ....perhaps the reality is too much to bear.
>>>> I wouldn't live in a country without a publicly funded educational
>>>> system. That was the point. However, I do feel sorry for you that
>>>> you can't look to other places for ideas.
>>> In fact Amy, I have looked to other places, and have assisted
>>> thousands of other people in this regard as well, so don't waste
>>> your time feeling sorry for me.
>>
>> Then why do you belittle solutions from other countries (or simply
>> looking at other countries that don't implement sensible solutions as
>> examples of what failures we'd be if we didn't do that either)?
>
> I don't belittle solutions in other countries. But their systems
> aren't based on the same stupidity ours is. They don't assume that
> more money=better education. Here's a model I'd like to see followed:
>
> http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20040416/ai_n11450489
>
> But you must understand that culturally, the Finns are different (I've
> lived there, I have Finnish relatives, I understand the culture). They
> don't spend nearly as much money as we do to educate our children.
> Why? The parents instill the idea that education is very important
> into their children. This idea is reinforced throughout society. It
> works because culturally, education is important, not because they
> spend money. And they mean it. We pretend to mean it. Until we
> really mean it, and not with money, we'll continue to have schools
> that turn out brain-dead idiots expecting the government to solve
> their problems.
>

"More Money" is unfortunatley very American - it's a lot like "bigger
vehicles" and "giant teevee screens". IOW, the entire "bigger is
better" mentality. What matters more is quantity rather than quality,
appearance rather than substance.

The most important aspect of education, however, is *not* ever-more-
expensive gee-gaws, but rather, learning how to think - how to gather
facts, assimilate them, derive principles, and then apply thiose
principles to other areas. I learned that on my own, but it'd be
interesting to see it being taught, because it's so useful.




Posted by Kris Krieger on November 27, 2007, 4:11 pm

> "Kris Krieger"> wrote
>> "More Money" is unfortunatley very American - it's a lot like "bigger
>> vehicles" and "giant teevee screens". IOW, the entire "bigger is
>> better" mentality. What matters more is quantity rather than
>> quality, appearance rather than substance.
>
> I'm watching a brand new, state of the art tri-school facilty being
> built in real time and the money being spent is unbelievable.
> Its 2 counties from here and I see it every 2 weeks when we go to my
> inlaws house.
> This thing is almost done and in the past 2 weeks they've installed
> several of the *decorative* elements.
> The school mascot, which is oh so vital to a proper education, is a
> 10' long marble bear standing out in front.
> (can you see the graffiti and vandalism attraction here?)
> The massive school signage has been installed at the intersection of 2
> main streets where the school sits.
> Within this sign structure is a full sized, must be 8'l x 4'h flat
> screen display in full color, running like a commercial sign and a
> screen saver. Yes, I saw clouds on the screen saver, trees and people
> running around, and verbage, just like on teevee.
> This is a k-12 facility and its massive and reportedly cost over
> $105mil, but we all know how realistic those numbers are.
> That $105mil has no bearing whatsoever on the yearly costs that will
> go on forever.
> Now what percentage of that $105mil directly influences the
> educational quality to the students?

None,. but as I keep saying, what I'm trying to get at is giving children
an opportunity to be *educated*, not forcing them to be warehoused or
turned into factory-wheel cogs, no matter how fancy-assed that warehouse or
tool-and-die plant might be.

WHat you cite is what I've consistently citred as being not education, but
self-perpetuating buraucracy run amok. IMO, most of what you mention is
complete BS and people should not be forced to pay for it, if they are not
using such facilities.

OTOH, I'd be willing to volunteer to teach reading and writing, if it would
be permitted - which it sn't, because I'm a "loon" - a loon with a 164
IQ, bachelor's in science, and a wazoo-full of post-grad and continuing
education credits plus various sorts of job expereince, but a loon
nonetheless, so there ya go, the masses have spoken. WHcih still doesn't
mean that I think children ought to have the opportunity to receive
education...children aren't born as stupid as most parents are, it takes
years of training, and puberty, to turn them into acceptable idiots.
((Yes, I *am* feeling somewhat cynical today.))


Posted by Kris Krieger on November 17, 2007, 7:33 pm

[ ... ]
> In fact Amy, I have looked to other places, and have assisted
> thousands of other people in this regard as well, so don't waste your
> time feeling sorry for me.
> The thing is, I don't look at the public schools and throw my hands up
> in the air.
> I have found a very successful solution for parents that are REALLY
> concerned about educating their kids, not just talking about it.
>
> Now, what have YOU done about the issue of poor education for kids?
>

I think the point is that, if education is the right of all children, how
do the People, through the gov.t, see to it that all children have access
to education?

So, for example, if you are home-schooling your children, then IMO you
should receive a tax reduction, because you are not using the public
schools, but not an exemption because it can be well-argued that education
benefits everyone.

I do not think that "education for every child" should be at all *equated*
with "the current public school system and its accompanying over-bloated
bureaucracy".


I do think that education is the right of every child, because I see
education as an intrinsic part of both maintaining liberty, and the pursuit
of happiness.

I therefore do think that education should be a shared responsibility by a
People concerned with liberty, and individual fulfillment.

I do not think that what occurs in public schools is education, and
therefore do not beleive that it is right or fair that huge amounts of
taxes are collected in order to support what is, for the most part, a self-
perpetuating bureaucracy which not only does not, but by its very nature
(as a bureaucy) cannot focus upon it purpoted role.


Posted by Amy Blankenship on November 18, 2007, 3:01 pm

> "Pat"> wrote
>> I think that just as a government can lose a war; it can fail to
>> fulfill other responsibilities. I wouldn't say we have exactly failed
>> in our education system, but I'd say we could do a much, much better
>> job.
>
> We?

You've consistently disavowed any fellow feeling for the rest of the
country, as well as any responsibility to other individuals in it. If you
think that you have the resources to make it on your own outside the
infrastructure generations of citizens of this country have spent
generations building, don't let the door hit you in the back.



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