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Posted by Kris Krieger on December 21, 2007, 6:38 pm
>>
>>>> What are they selling?
>>>>
>>>> Eternal *life*.
>>>>
>>>> That is, immortal life after a mortal death.
>>>> You have to die first, and that scares the shit out of lots of
>>>> folks. So the religious leaders have to persuade them by dangling a
>>>> huge, tasty carrot just on the otherside of, well, the otherside.
>>>> You know, pearly gates, sitting at the hand of god, no more pain,
>>>> everyone is equal and without hate and all that nasty stuff.
>>>>
>>>> Have any of these charlatans offered up any proof of that which
>>>> they are selling?
>>>> Direct proof, someone that has actually sat at gods right hand and
>>>> walked through those pearly gates.
>>>>
>>>> Say what?
>>>>
>>>> You mean to tell me not one single person has ever seen or done
>>>> these things?
>>>>
>>>> -----------
>>>>
>>>> Long ago a preacher, no not THAT one -another one, taught me the
>>>> basics of how to play guitar.
>>>> I learned alot from that guy about a lot of things.
>>>> But I couldn't learn his idea of life after death, it never clicked
>>>> for me.
>>>>
>>>> One time I pushed him hard on a topic and he finally revealed
>>>> something to me.
>>>> He told me, while holding a bible,'If this book is wrong then
>>>> everything I stand for, everything I have devoted my life to, will
>>>> have been for nothing'.
>>>> I asked, 'Isn't that a tremendous sacrifice considering there is no
>>>> guaranteed outcome?'
>>>> He said, 'No, not really, I would have led my life the way I had
>>>> whether the bible is right or wrong anyway, so I have nothing to
>>>> lose'. 'You on the otherhand have everything to lose by not
>>>> believing in god, for if the bible IS correct then you will be
>>>> forever lost'.
>>>>
>>>> I pondered that for a brief moment in my 13 year old life and then
>>>> I told him, 'But I just don't believe it, can I be faulted for
>>>> that?'
>>>>
>>>> As we looked at each other the look in each of our eyes at that
>>>> moment in time was exactly the same but for different reasons.
>>>>
>>>> He couldn't understand why I couldn't believe in his god and I
>>>> couldn't understand how he could.
>>>>
>>>
>>> If his logic is correct, about just believing, then so is the Bart
>>> Simpson get out of hell free card. All you got to do is live your
>>> life like a normal human being, even sinning every now and then is
>>> fine (heck go murder someone if you really feel like it), and then
>>> ask for forgiveness on your deathbed and everything will be a-ok.
>>
>> There was one guy, when I was a kid, who went to Confession twice a
>> week, always received Communion, and was otherwise a "devout
>> Catholic", but was also known to beat the stuffings out of his wife
>> and kids on a regular basis. Oh, but he was "forgiven". Even tho'
>> he refused to try to change. It was a running joke in town. I
>> personally found it to be more disgusting than funny that it was
>> basically OK to harm, in that way, poeple who couldn't fight back.
>> Meanwhile, my one sister had missed confession for a month because
>> she'd been severely ill, and the priest yelled at her at teh top of
>> his lungs, and told her she was going to hell and so on and so forth
>> - she came home sobbing violently (she was about 13 at the time).
>>
>> Jerks.
>>
>>>Yes
>>> that is the logic every one of these bastards that would molest
>>> children and steal from their congregation want you to believe
>>> because it is the only one that will let them get to heaven.
>>
>> One thing that nobody ever thinks about is the fact that firstly,
>> Leviticus comdemns "lying with a MAN as with a women", but later on,
>> in the story of David and Goliath, David is desxcribed as being 16,
>> and therfore NOT YET A MAN. But there is *nothing* which condemns
>> having sex with chidren.
>>
>> So what nobody wants to realize is that one can use the Bible and
>> Biblical law (or in this case, the lack thereof) to condone having
>> sex with children. Given how cagey the church can be about how "lay
>> people cannot properly interpret the Bible", well.......
>>
>> So just think about THAT the next time someone starts blithering
>> about how "we need to get back to Blblical law and Blblical values".
>>
>>> If belief is all it takes, then it doesn't matter how you live your
>>> life. But the truth of the matter, and the thing that will make all
>>> priests lose their jobs immediately if the truth got out, is that
>>> the only thing that really matters is how you behave...belief
>>> doesn't come into it AT ALL, and if there is a God, that is the
>>> absolute truth. God is a son of a bitch, egotistical bastard with
>>> self-esteem issues if it isn't :).
>>>
>>
>> I think it also matter what's in the "heart" so to speak. If someone
>> does something but at the time, doesn't realize it was wrong, but
>> later regrets having done it, I think the regret counts. Also,
>> sometimes one does something harmful when that was not what had been
>> intended - or also, accidents happen. ANd differnt people have
>> different capabilities. Some things obviously are just wrong no
>> matter what, but the hting is that nobody is perfect, nobody can be
>> perfect all the time, so I think that intention plays a part. But
>> that's different than this nonsense of being a total sh*t, and then
>> saying "I'm sorry" because one gets to a point where one begins to
>> fear the potential punishment.
>>
>> It's like the way some jackasses commit a murder or vehicular
>> homicide or rape or some other act they *chose*, and then stand up in
>> court and get weepy and say "I'm sorry", as tho' that is supposed to
>> make it all better. YEESH. They're not sorry, they're only sorry
>> they got caught and they want to wriggle out of getting their just
>> comeuppance.
>
>
> Yeah when I say behavior, it is more to say thoughts or ideas,
> actions, and intentions. These are the things that truly matter.
Yeah, I jsut have a compulsion fo radding caveats <G!> Seriously, tho',
too often, "behavior" refers to only the most shallow aspects of action
(or inaction). It's too common for people to behave in ways that makes
others think they're wonderfull, when all they're doing is being
manipulative.
> The other thing I don't understand at all is this fear of God thing.
> That has never made any sense to me, even as a young kid growing up.
> Anyone I have grown to fear, I have usually also grown to hate and
> avoid. That is the connotation that fear has for me, not one of love
> and forgiveness, and certainly not one of goodness and understanding.
You don't fear someone if your relationship is one of love, or heck, even
friendship. THe only thing you actually fear is doing something that
would destroy that relationship. So I agree with you, it makes no sense
to talk about loving God, or about God's love, and then the next instant,
go on about being in terror of wrathand fire and brimstone and the rest
of it.
>
> In the end if there is a God, he gave us a brain and it is insulting
> to the creator of all things that we would toss it aside in favor of
> dogma, and not actually use it in any useful sense.
What's scary is that i've been saying almost th eexact same thing for
many years. We have a mind (intellect), *and* a heart (emotions), *and*
a spirit, and it makes no sense to accept that on epart or the other
"must" be excised, annihilated - all that is is partial suicide.
Science, art, and spirituality are different things - yet, they're all
connected, like mountain lakes connected by a hidden aquifer, and what
that aquifer is, is the Human urge to understand the universe and our
place in it.
> But the creator
> of all things doesn't sound right to me either, more like the one
> common thread running through all things and all of existence. We are
> it and it is us.
>
God is God, God is part of all created Beings and things, and all creqted
Beings and things are part of God. Sort of a symbiosis. I personally
use "Creator" because it is not a religiously-charged word.
IT occurred to me, re: the article you (I think it was you) had linked
to, about the origin of physical laws. Although theose laws governe this
universe, it's been suggested that they are teh only laws, at least the
only we know of, that would lead to a stable universe capable of
supporting life, So in that sense, maybe that, too, is part of what the
Creator is...? But that's a book-length topic...
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