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Posted by Kris Krieger on December 19, 2007, 5:29 pm
>
>>
>>> Don wrote:
>>>>> Don wrote:
>>>>>> .....Don't go to a gunfight with a knife.
>>>>> Without guns, there are no gunfights.
>>>>>
>>>>>> But thats what Sean Taylor did and he surrendered his life for
>>>>>> that mistake.
>>>>>> He attempted to defend himself and his family with a machete
>>>>>> against 4 or 5 ne'er do wells that had no respect of the law or
>>>>>> life.
>>>>> I've heard that resisting an attack may be worse than not
>>>>> resisting one. If true, resisting an attack with a gun will still
>>>>> pose a certain level of risk beyond not resisting.
>>>>>
>>>>>> If Sean had had a firearm there's a good chance this story would
>>>>>> have turned out differently.
>>>>> Maybe.
>>>>
>>>> A maybe is better than being dead.
>>>
>>> In that particular anecdote, sure, but that doesn't take into
>>> account the big picture. Your picture is too little to support your
>>> apparent point.
>>
>> Just a few days ago, a repeat felon with a history of violent crime
>> tried to break into a house, in the late afternoon, and where the
>> family was obviously at home. THe surprised homeowner had time to
>> tell his wife an dchild to leave the room, and then grab hiistol and
>> shoot the intruder - who, given his history and apparent desperation,
>> would almost certainly have harmed the family.
>>
>> I've heard a lot of anti-gun stuff from poeple who have never been
>> attacked and/or in fear of thier lives, and/or the lives of their
>> loved ones. SInce i haven't had the priviledge of that insulated a
>> life, I personally like havin gboth the means, and the legal right
>> (here in Texas at least) to defend myself. IMO that is a personal
>> choice - if someone else wants to be potential fodder, it's
>> completely up to them, btu they have not right whatsoever to
>> **ORDER** be to make the same choice. As for criminals, well, even
>> in countries where guns a re banned/outlawed, criminals still find
>> ways to get them. Gun restrictions end up restricting people who
>> actually obey the law, because people who don't give a damn about the
>> law (or about their victims) will simply get them on the black
>> market. Wasn't there just the other day a mass shooting in Finland
>> of all places? You cannot magically cure social ills or personal
>> disfuntion by simply making it illegal to own/use certain objects.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>>> The shooter is 17 years old and justice as it is there's the
>>>>>> liklihood he'll be back on the streets harming others in the
>>>>>> future.
>>>>> That seems a different, if related, issue.
>>>>> Here's yet another:
>>>>> Have cost-benefit analyses been done with regard to free-for-alls
>>>>> for guns, versus certain forms of gun-control?
>>>>
>>>> Gun control for who, criminals?
>>>> Sure, why not?
>>>
>>> Cough it up, then. Let's see the research beyond the glib. Put on
>>> your fucking combat boots, pack your iron. You wanna talk about
>>> pussification?
>>>
>>>>> I mean, while Sean may have been spared had he had a gun-- a
>>>>> "hole/leak in the boat plugged-up"-- what other holes might open
>>>>> up as a result, and would they be bigger and/or more numerous.
>>>>
>>>> Such as?
>>>
>>> You tell me. It's your thread... or do you just have a knife? Is
>>> your gun too heavy to take out of it's holster? (takes glove off,
>>> slaps Don in face with it)
>>> Wanna shoot yourself if the foot? Happy to just piss in the wind?
>>
>> THat's inane. I dunno abou Don, but I'm over 50, arthritic, and
>> therefore out of shape. I'd have Zero chance of defending myself
>> against a knife attack, even is I had a bigger knife.
>
> Yeah you would, anybody would.
> It starts with an attitude.
> 'tood.
> Gotta a few barstools sitting around?
> A lamp?
> Coffee cup?
> Is anything at all lying around.
> When push comes to shove everything is expendable and everything is a
> weapon, you can buy more stuff later, right now you have a job to do,
> and that is to dispatch a villain with whatever *tools* are instantly
> available. I'm too old for all that beatin and poundin, now, so if the
> *opportunity* arises I'll just mangle the MF's eyeballs and be done
> with it.
Well, that's true. I guess the initial think is whether one has that
drive/will to first of all survive. I know how I've reacted in the past,
and the combination of adrenalin and pure "pissed-off-ness" can overcome
a surprising amount of physicla shirtcomings ;)
>
> **They have to come across about 80' of noisy gravel, traverse a
> slippery 16' long bridge, open a rickety gate, cross a creaky wooden
> deck and then break through TWO front doors and by that time I'll have
> the gauge out of the closet and from the top of the stairs I'll *open*
> the front doors for them-him.
>
>
> And no, my guns are not
>> too heavy to lift - it's mroe sensible to use a smaller gun which one
>> can wield effectively. If you load your .22 with hollow-points,
>> you're better off hitting an attacker five times with the smaller
>> load, than you are if you shoot a .357 once and miss, and can't
>> regain control after the kickback in time before the attacker nails
>> you.
>
> For *in house* defense, especially if the residence is occupied by
> other people, a shotgun is better.
True. Been considering that.
> A pistol or rifle bullt will go through several rooms before stopping,
> if someone doesn't stop it first, like a sleeping wife or kid.
> Another thing, most people aren't accustomed to shooting in the dark.
> I am, but not for a long time, thus a gauge is better cause all you
> have to do is aim in the general direction of the assailant and if
> even 1 BB hits him he's gonna be hurtin bad.
> A gauge can tear up some serious drywall but the BB's won't go much
> further than that.
Good point. And it doesn't have to be more than a 12-guage, really.
>
> A side benefit to a gauge is that when you rack it in the dark the
> perp will most likely lose control of his bodily functions.
> That sound is horrifying at night, unless its in your own hands, then
> its reassuring.
Good point ;)
>
>
>> And sorry, but not all people who own guns are idiots with no concept
>> of gun safety, i.e. likely to shoot themselves in the foot or
>> whatever. My grandfather had been a forest warden in the old
>> Chechoslovakia before he came here, and after that, never bought meat
>> in the store; my father was a championship marksman as well as an
>> occasional hunter (andnyes, "one shot", as in that movie "The Deer
>> Hunter"). All I've ever done is shred paper now and then, but
>> shooting is part of my family and cultural history, and it's rather
>> irksome that you choose to imply that these traditions are ONLY the
>> realm of idiots - frankly, that says mroe about you than it says
>> about all people who enjoy shooting or even hunting.
>
> The bigger picture is that less than .01% of the guns in the US are
> used for criminal purposes so clamping down on the 99.09% that are not
> is just mindlessly silly.
I didn't know the statistic - I'd thought there was a wide disparity, but
I didn't know it was that huge.
> A very small percentage of the population uses guns for criminal
> purposes and they are routinely rotated in and out of the system.
> Next time a local criminal is arrested for killing someone look his
> record up on the sheriffs website and you'll see he has a long history
> of dealing in violence but the institution that numbskallz urge to
> confiscate and infringe on the rights of others to protect themselves
> is the same one that continuously spews garbage people back into our
> midsts over and over and over.
That's the other part of th eproblem. I'd prefer it if there was some
way to nip this stuff in th ebud, before kids turned into violent felons,
or even if there was some sort of treatment/rehab in prison - but I'm one
person and can't change the world. Just improve, and hopefully protect,
my very little piece of it.
I just get more than a little bit wearyof having people screaming that
what is to me a tradition, and one I deal with very safely, is "murderous
sh*t". Hell, I've never even slapped someone for no reason - I have a
temper but I'v enever resorted to violence unless someone first
perpetrated violence upon me, or upon someone else who couldn't take care
of themselves (IOW, I'd protect a kid from an adult if need be). So I
get just a wee bit miffed when people scream that anyone who owns a gun
is a violent and potentially murderous scumbag.
TO me, it's my version o f Zen Archery. Except that the gun range is
maybe 2 miles from here, whereas I have no idea where any archery ranges
are ;)
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