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Posted by Info on January 31, 2009, 12:31 pm
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> I'm the wheelchair-friendly bathroom remodel guy. Here's the initial
> "scope
> of work" document I received from Tub Cove. This company is the
> only contender because the others were too expensive too much rot. I don't
> think they
> wanted my business and Tub Cove has specialized exclusively in this work
> for at least
> twenty years.
> http://www.geocities.com/haroldshamster/Scope_of_Work.xls
> I've been on project teams, coordinating work, but I have not been at the
> front end "SOW" part before. What do you think ? I need a more specific
> document and will ask for it.
> On other concern I have is the contract. At a minimum, I need to make sure
> he can restore the bathroom if a problem (I don't know how to put it)
> crops up that makes the original plan unworkable. Suppose the wall
> on the side of the tub gives way when he removes the tub? That will be
> his obligation to fix, but I need to make sure I can make that stick. I
> also
> want a "not to exceed" amount in the contract.
Info,
Take what everyone says here with a grain of salt. I think the fact
that Tub Cove has been doing this kind of work for so long is your
best guarantee of success. You are not a pain in the ass just a
concerned buyer of these services. You don't want to make the process
more difficult or cumbersome than it has to be. Check references and
the Better Business Bureau for anything negative. Read the contract
carefully to see if your concerns are adequately adressed. Good luck
and I hope things turn out well for you.
-------
Thanks. I am a pain in the ass. Ask my wife. I just don't understand
where those posters got their belligerence. I did nothing but ask a
question. But, just ask my wife.
"Too much rot" was horrible shorthand on my part. See me next post. For
what it's worth I had already checked the state's contractor database and
found no complaints. Tub Cove has the job for $12k.
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Posted by Ed Pawlowski on January 31, 2009, 3:14 pm
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> Thanks. I am a pain in the ass. Ask my wife. I just don't understand
> where those posters got their belligerence. I did nothing but ask a
> question. But, just ask my wife.
From your attitude. You want a "not to exceed" price, yet you know you have
hidden damages. Unless you pay to have it torn up and inspected, no one can
truly give you what you want. You want assurance that the work can be put
back if the project is not going to work. That too is a difficult thing to
price or to assure and at each step it gets more difficult and expensive to
do that.
I've run into people like you and they are not worth the aggravation. Some
people will just never be happy now matter how good the work or how low the
price is. What you need is a reputable contractor and trust both ways.
I've not changed my mind. I'd not take the job. I don't care if you think
me belligerent, but I won't have to see you in court either.
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Posted by Info on January 31, 2009, 5:44 pm
show/hide quoted text
> > I'm the wheelchair-friendly bathroom remodel guy. Here's the initial
> > "scope
> > of work" document I received from Tub Cove. This company is the
> > only contender because the others were too expensive too much rot. I
> > don't
> > think they
> > wanted my business and Tub Cove has specialized exclusively in this work
> > for at least
> > twenty years.
> >http://www.geocities.com/haroldshamster/Scope_of_Work.xls
> > I've been on project teams, coordinating work, but I have not been at
> > the
> > front end "SOW" part before. What do you think ? I need a more specific
> > document and will ask for it.
> > On other concern I have is the contract. At a minimum, I need to make
> > sure
> > he can restore the bathroom if a problem (I don't know how to put it)
> > crops up that makes the original plan unworkable. Suppose the wall
> > on the side of the tub gives way when he removes the tub? That will be
> > his obligation to fix, but I need to make sure I can make that stick. I
> > also
> > want a "not to exceed" amount in the contract.
> Info,
> Take what everyone says here with a grain of salt. I think the fact
> that Tub Cove has been doing this kind of work for so long is your
> best guarantee of success. You are not a pain in the ass just a
> concerned buyer of these services. You don't want to make the process
> more difficult or cumbersome than it has to be. Check references and
> the Better Business Bureau for anything negative. Read the contract
> carefully to see if your concerns are adequately adressed. Good luck
> and I hope things turn out well for you.
> KC
> -------
> Thanks. I am a pain in the ass. Ask my wife. I just don't understand
> where those posters got their belligerence. I did nothing but ask a
> question. But, just ask my wife.
> "Too much rot" was horrible shorthand on my part. See me next post. For
> what it's worth I had already checked the state's contractor database and
> found no complaints. Tub Cove has the job for $12k.
Doing a work write up is sort of an art in it involves some
assumptions. You are either assuming (a) that there is no concealed
rot or (b) that there is rot. If there is rot, then (a) you are
either unaware of it or (b) you are hoping to hide it from the
contractor. You want a fixed price. So, the contractor can either
(a) assume there's rot and charge you a fortune (if there isn't rot,
then they make out like a bandit) or (b) they can assume there isn't
rot and lose money. Which do you want?
So obviously, the best scenario is for the contractor to assume there
is no rot and charge accordingly while you assume there IS rot and
have enough money to cover that. Then, if there's no rot you are
charged a fair price. If there is rot, then they give you a change
order and again you are charged fairly.
The reason that people are viewing you as a PITA is because you want
the contractor (who didn't develop the scope of work) to guarantee
that there isn't any rot and price accordingly. So for the
contractor, it's best just to walk away because it's the start of a
bad relationship.
BTW, I looked at the scope of work. You really can't work off of it
but that's a completely different problem.
-------
1) The scope of work is too vague for me so I came here for opinions. Why
do you think it's insufficient or whatever? The contractor, Tub Cove, did
write the scope of work and emailed it to me. Why do you say that the
contractor didn't write it? I'm not criticizing you. I don't know who
other than the contractor would have written it. Tub Cove is the one that's
doing the work. That's why I'm calling Tub Cove the contractor.
Can you elaborate about your the scope of work comment?
2) Please see my response to Nate Nigel. I blew it by my horribly-written
phrase "too much rot" way early in this thread. Nobody knew that when they
started posting, so all the observations prior to my post to Nate about the
contractors' rights are certainly valid. I understand that. There might be
rot behind the walls. I don't expect perfection. I'm just looking for ways
to contain the possible financial damage. My "too much rot" was atrociously
worded. I have no excuse for it.
I have only one question about the PITA stuff. Those responses are venomous
personal attacks. I don't understand the mindset that prompts them. A
simple, "I don't agree because..." would have been sufficient. I have
many flaws, but I don't attack people whose opinions I don't share. Where
the heck does this venom come from? That's the last I'll say about the PITA
stuff.
Thanks
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Posted by jimbobmitchell on January 31, 2009, 11:09 am
show/hide quoted text
> I'm the wheelchair-friendly bathroom remodel guy. =A0Here's the initial "=
scope
show/hide quoted text
> of work" document I received from Tub Cove. This company is the
> only contender because the others were too expensive too much rot. =A0I d=
on't
show/hide quoted text
> think they
> wanted my business and Tub Cove =A0has specialized exclusively in this wo=
> for at least
> twenty years.
> http://www.geocities.com/haroldshamster/Scope_of_Work.xls
> I've been on project teams, coordinating work, but I have not been at the
> front end "SOW" part before. What do you think ? =A0I need a more specifi=
> document and will ask for it.
> On other concern I have is the contract. =A0At a minimum, I need to make =
sure
show/hide quoted text
> he can restore the bathroom if a problem (I don't know how to put it)
> =A0crops up that makes the original plan unworkable. =A0Suppose the wall
> on the side of the tub gives way when he removes the tub? =A0That will be
> his obligation to fix, but I need to make sure I can make that stick. =A0=
> also
> want a "not to exceed" amount in the contract.
You're aware that you'll have to transfer into that shower because
there's a 2-1/2" threshold, correct? Most people in wheelchairs prefer
roll-in showers. Also, the way that SOW is written, you'll be eating
any additional work if there is any extra work involved once the tub
is removed. You can't expect the person doing the estimating to have
xray vision. Good luck with your project.
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Posted by Nate Nagel on January 31, 2009, 11:18 am
jimbobmitchell@verizon.net wrote:
show/hide quoted text
>> I'm the wheelchair-friendly bathroom remodel guy. Here's the initial "scope
>> of work" document I received from Tub Cove. This company is the
>> only contender because the others were too expensive too much rot. I don't
>> think they
>> wanted my business and Tub Cove has specialized exclusively in this work
>> for at least
>> twenty years.
>> http://www.geocities.com/haroldshamster/Scope_of_Work.xls
>> I've been on project teams, coordinating work, but I have not been at the
>> front end "SOW" part before. What do you think ? I need a more specific
>> document and will ask for it.
>> On other concern I have is the contract. At a minimum, I need to make sure
>> he can restore the bathroom if a problem (I don't know how to put it)
>> crops up that makes the original plan unworkable. Suppose the wall
>> on the side of the tub gives way when he removes the tub? That will be
>> his obligation to fix, but I need to make sure I can make that stick. I
>> also
>> want a "not to exceed" amount in the contract.
>
> You're aware that you'll have to transfer into that shower because
> there's a 2-1/2" threshold, correct? Most people in wheelchairs prefer
> roll-in showers. Also, the way that SOW is written, you'll be eating
> any additional work if there is any extra work involved once the tub
> is removed. You can't expect the person doing the estimating to have
> xray vision. Good luck with your project.
What I see in there is permits and inspections are excluded from the bid
price, and also I see nothing in there about structural
repair/reconstruction, so if any is required that would be a change
order. I would ask what their price for, say, a new subfloor would be
if required, just in case. In pretty much any construction environment
change orders are higher margin than bid work, and that's not the
company trying to screw you that's just the way it is, so you might as
well get an idea of cost in a "worst case" scenario.
Did the "other guys" include an estimate of rot repair in their bids?
It may turn out that that might be a cheaper overall price. worth asking.
good luck
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
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> "scope
> of work" document I received from Tub Cove. This company is the
> only contender because the others were too expensive too much rot. I don't
> think they
> wanted my business and Tub Cove has specialized exclusively in this work
> for at least
> twenty years.
> http://www.geocities.com/haroldshamster/Scope_of_Work.xls
> I've been on project teams, coordinating work, but I have not been at the
> front end "SOW" part before. What do you think ? I need a more specific
> document and will ask for it.
> On other concern I have is the contract. At a minimum, I need to make sure
> he can restore the bathroom if a problem (I don't know how to put it)
> crops up that makes the original plan unworkable. Suppose the wall
> on the side of the tub gives way when he removes the tub? That will be
> his obligation to fix, but I need to make sure I can make that stick. I
> also
> want a "not to exceed" amount in the contract.