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Posted by Kris Krieger on February 7, 2008, 12:02 pm
> "Warm Worm"> wrote
>> I know that some people like to collect quite a few things, but
>> that's not me-- at least not currently, so a small house might work.
>
> Things only grow as large as their environment will allow.
> Fish, for example, will grow to a certain size in a 10 gallon
> aquarium. Transfer them to a 29 gallon tank and they will grow larger.
THat is the rumor, but when I had fish, it sure didn't seem to work out
that way. I thnk some tend to remain small in aquaria because they don't
get fed a lot, or don't get a lot of quality nutrition. Give them regular
food with a high nutrient level, and they *will* grow.
>
> We used to live on a quarter acre, now we live on 5 acres.
> We are growing.
> I want 100 acres, or more.
Shoot, I've never lived on anything larger than 1 quarter acre, and I've
*always* wanted at least 20, and 100 would be better ;) !
>
> Whats that saying?
> People grow to envelope their space?
> Or sumfink like that.
> The bigger the space, the more stuff you harbor.
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Posted by Kris Krieger on February 7, 2008, 5:09 pm
>
>>
>>> "Warm Worm"> wrote
>>>> I know that some people like to collect quite a few things, but
>>>> that's not me-- at least not currently, so a small house might
>>>> work.
>>>
>>> Things only grow as large as their environment will allow.
>>> Fish, for example, will grow to a certain size in a 10 gallon
>>> aquarium. Transfer them to a 29 gallon tank and they will grow
>>> larger.
>>
>> THat is the rumor, but when I had fish, it sure didn't seem to work
>> out that way. I thnk some tend to remain small in aquaria because
>> they don't get fed a lot, or don't get a lot of quality nutrition.
>> Give them regular food with a high nutrient level, and they *will*
>> grow.
>
> Long ago my wife gave me a little 10 gallon setup and I stuffed a
> variety of goldfish in there.
> They only got so big.
> Then I upgraded to a 29 gallon long tank and they grew much bigger, 6"
> - 8" then stopped growing again.
> If my blueprint machine hadn't killed all of them I was going to get a
> 65 gallon tank.
Hmmm, maybe golfish are differnt from Cichlids. I'd gotten two, when
they were itty-bitty, one was a Haplochromis venustis:
http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_venust.php,
I thing the other was also some form of Haplochromis.
I had them in a 40-gallon tank with 2 or 3 types of other elongated
cichlids. The first two kept getting larger, and larger. I sold them
back to the store, by that time, one was 8"and the other was 9". THe guy
had told us the same thing, that "they'll stay tiny ina tank". I guess i
just ded them too well - blended my own food from stuff like tiny
scallops (they were cheap back then in Columbia, SC), mackerel flakes,
spirulina, carrot, and so on.
So, it actually depends upon the type of fish. IIRC, fish keep growing
throughout their lives (unlike mammals), but some are genetically
predisposed to remain small (I suppose that, after a point, they just
grow very *slowly*).
I also had these in the cichlid tank:
http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_auratus.php
(the fry and females, IIRC, have colors that are almost inverted - a
mediUM to dark blue rather than yellow)
http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_lombardoi.php
(Again, fry and females are blue)
THey kept having fry, so I got to sell those. It's weasy to get them
into a small brood tank becasue the cichlids would hold the eggs, then
the fry (whil;e very small) in their mouths to protect them. So, once
the female got "a fat head", we know it was time to set up the 5-gal
brooding tank.
Also had a smaller tank with a brackish-water puffer and a couple others,
can't recall what - that was back around 1980. Someone who was
"tending" the fish while I was away changed the water but forgot to add
salt, so killed the fish (they all got fungus). Also had set up a 60-gal
marine tank, but the dealer turned out to be unreputable and, shortly
after the first tank died, sold us an unquarantined fish with parasites
that killed off that tank as well. Sort of took some of the "aquarium
fervor" out of me.
I now have a tiny 3-gal thing with 5 glow-light tetras (which I was told
would "stay small, like neon tetras", but are already over an inch long
and, as i later learned, will get even larger. Also have two danios, a
recent sport that comes in bright yellow, orange or red. At least I know
that danios do, in fact, stay small (had those at some point in the
past). I wish I could keep squid - I'm fascinated by their ability to
change color and pattern; its not only camoflage, they also communicate
that way, so that whole concept fascinates me.
ANYHOO, retunring from my digression, Goldfish don't get very big, so
that's an advantage for aquarists. Well, OK, Carp do get large, and I
think but don't recall exactly, that they're a type of goldfish, or
goldfish are a type of carp, or something like that - anyhoo, at least
some carp (a.k.a. Koi) can get pretty hefty; it's just their genetics. I
also would think that, if you got a baby Tuna or Swordfish, they'd keep
growing as long as you kept feeding them.
So it's a combination of type of fish (i.e. the genetics of the
particular species), and food availability. Also, I'd think, water
quality, since that affects health/vigor.
> Hmmmmm.......I have a blank space over against that wall right
> there....maybe its time to get back into that stuff.
> My favorites were Red Cap Oranda's:
> http://www.hoveniersbedrijfjonkers.nl/supload/image/F.orandaredcap.jpg
> and Black Moors: http://www.paulsaquariums.com/BLACK%20MOOR.jpg
Well, researchers have hooked people up to monitors, and did find that an
aquarium has a demonstrable soothing/calming effect.
I personally just like having living things inside. Not so many that I
can't keep up, but a few, plants, fish, my bird. THought of a dog but
not sure I could manage it, becasue I'm not really a "mammal person".
Anyway, an aquarium is iMO always a nice addition to a home. The fish do
respond to the person/people who feed them, with some being more clever
than others.
But do be sure to check their adult size range...teh "won't outgrow the
tank" thing has some important limitations...
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Posted by Kris Krieger on February 9, 2008, 6:08 pm
>
[ snip ]
>>
>> ANYHOO, retunring from my digression, Goldfish don't get very big, so
>> that's an advantage for aquarists. Well, OK, Carp do get large, and
>> I think but don't recall exactly, that they're a type of goldfish, or
>> goldfish are a type of carp, or something like that - anyhoo, at
>> least some carp (a.k.a. Koi) can get pretty hefty; it's just their
>> genetics. I also would think that, if you got a baby Tuna or
>> Swordfish, they'd keep growing as long as you kept feeding them.
>>
>> So it's a combination of type of fish (i.e. the genetics of the
>> particular species), and food availability. Also, I'd think, water
>> quality, since that affects health/vigor.
>>
>>
>>> Hmmmmm.......I have a blank space over against that wall right
>>> there....maybe its time to get back into that stuff.
>>> My favorites were Red Cap Oranda's:
>>> http://www.hoveniersbedrijfjonkers.nl/supload/image/F.orandaredcap.jp
>>> g and Black Moors: http://www.paulsaquariums.com/BLACK%20MOOR.jpg
>>
>> Well, researchers have hooked people up to monitors, and did find
>> that an aquarium has a demonstrable soothing/calming effect.
>
> I'd sit on the floor at night with all the lights out but the aquarium
> light and just stare at em.
> They'd sort of interact with me as well.
> It was cool.
I can relate.
BTW, did you know that goldfish can see in the near-infrared? SO they
can prob. see you without the lights on ;)
If you are interested in a brackish water tank (basically, fresh with
soem aquaroim salt dumped in), the estuarine puffers aer really smart for
fish. Same for many African cichlids (they like hard water, plus a
little adedd salt.) ALso, the cichlids are hardy - hard to kill. ANd
brightly colored in many cases. SO that might be a thought. Nothing
wrong with goldfish of course, it's just that a lot fo people are
unfamiliar with the African cichlids.
>
> I'm gonna have to look into getting another setup.
ANd now, you can get larger tanks in that "unimolded" design - IOW,
rather than glass panels slathered with silicone, the whole tank is one
single form, and the top fits righ tonto it. IIRC, they're mostly put
out by Eclipse. It's a cartrige-based set-up, so you can either get bags
and refill them, or get the pre-measured cartriges.
One thing I'd suggest is "double-filtering" - set up your filter so that
ti pulls through an undergravel filter that covers the whole tank bottom
if possible. THat way, you get both the "regular" filter action (carbon,
anti-ammonia pellets, etc.) plus the biological filter action. THat way,
you can cram more fish in to the tank, esp. if you add extra bubblers to
oxygenate the water.
>
>> I personally just like having living things inside. Not so many that
>> I can't keep up, but a few, plants, fish, my bird. THought of a dog
>> but not sure I could manage it, becasue I'm not really a "mammal
>> person".
>
> They are all very rewarding but they are also responsibilites.
> My wife and I sort of agree that we won't get anymore dogs or cats.
> 2 dogs and 4 cats right now.
That *is* kind of a lot.
Like anything else in life, tho', it all depends on what a person wants,
and what trade-offs one is willing to make.
>
>> Anyway, an aquarium is iMO always a nice addition to a home. The
>> fish do respond to the person/people who feed them, with some being
>> more clever than others.
>>
>> But do be sure to check their adult size range...teh "won't outgrow
>> the tank" thing has some important limitations...
>
> Thats what they make frying pans for. <wink>
HA! <LOL!>
Well, wiht thos big cichlids, hey, that's what the people who live there
eat - that's where Tilapia originated ;)
"Home Fish-Farming For Fun And Profit" <g!>
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Posted by Kris Krieger on February 12, 2008, 12:51 am
>
>>
>>>
>> [ snip ]
>>>>
>>>> ANYHOO, retunring from my digression, Goldfish don't get very big,
>>>> so that's an advantage for aquarists. Well, OK, Carp do get large,
>>>> and I think but don't recall exactly, that they're a type of
>>>> goldfish, or goldfish are a type of carp, or something like that -
>>>> anyhoo, at least some carp (a.k.a. Koi) can get pretty hefty; it's
>>>> just their genetics. I also would think that, if you got a baby
>>>> Tuna or Swordfish, they'd keep growing as long as you kept feeding
>>>> them.
>>>>
>>>> So it's a combination of type of fish (i.e. the genetics of the
>>>> particular species), and food availability. Also, I'd think, water
>>>> quality, since that affects health/vigor.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hmmmmm.......I have a blank space over against that wall right
>>>>> there....maybe its time to get back into that stuff.
>>>>> My favorites were Red Cap Oranda's:
>>>>> http://www.hoveniersbedrijfjonkers.nl/supload/image/F.orandaredcap.
>>>>> jp g and Black Moors:
>>>>> http://www.paulsaquariums.com/BLACK%20MOOR.jpg
>>>>
>>>> Well, researchers have hooked people up to monitors, and did find
>>>> that an aquarium has a demonstrable soothing/calming effect.
>>>
>>> I'd sit on the floor at night with all the lights out but the
>>> aquarium light and just stare at em.
>>> They'd sort of interact with me as well.
>>> It was cool.
>>
>> I can relate.
>>
>> BTW, did you know that goldfish can see in the near-infrared? SO
>> they can prob. see you without the lights on ;)
>>
>>
>> If you are interested in a brackish water tank (basically, fresh with
>> soem aquaroim salt dumped in), the estuarine puffers aer really smart
>> for fish. Same for many African cichlids (they like hard water, plus
>> a little adedd salt.) ALso, the cichlids are hardy - hard to kill.
>> ANd brightly colored in many cases. SO that might be a thought.
>> Nothing wrong with goldfish of course, it's just that a lot fo people
>> are unfamiliar with the African cichlids.
>>
>>>
>>> I'm gonna have to look into getting another setup.
>>
>> ANd now, you can get larger tanks in that "unimolded" design - IOW,
>> rather than glass panels slathered with silicone, the whole tank is
>> one single form, and the top fits righ tonto it. IIRC, they're
>> mostly put out by Eclipse. It's a cartrige-based set-up, so you can
>> either get bags and refill them, or get the pre-measured cartriges.
>>
>> One thing I'd suggest is "double-filtering" - set up your filter so
>> that ti pulls through an undergravel filter that covers the whole
>> tank bottom if possible. THat way, you get both the "regular" filter
>> action (carbon, anti-ammonia pellets, etc.) plus the biological
>> filter action. THat way, you can cram more fish in to the tank, esp.
>> if you add extra bubblers to oxygenate the water.
>
> Yeah, thats the way I had it setup before with the undergravel AND the
> rim hangers.
I thought ti might be something you'd do, but figured I'd mention it just
in case.
> Did you know goldfish are horrible gravel gobblers?
> No kidding, in a 24 hour period I bet they turned over every single
> grain of gravel in that tank.
> This caused horrible build up in the UG filter and I had to break the
> whole thing down and clean it out more than regularly.
> Finally I yanked all the gravel and put marbles in there and that
> evened things out much better, cut down on the maintenance.
I didn't know that, but I don't know anything about goldfish. I guess
they're bottom-feeders...? Prob going over all the gravel getting any
tidbits that collect. Marbles sound likea good alternative. You can
always get a clown-loach to get in between them to keep them cleaned -
the loaches are more "delicate" eaters and don't really turn stuff over.
They're also active, and funny to watch.
Right now, Ihave 5 "glow light tetras", and they're boring -they hide
most of the time and only appear when I put food in, and they finally
figure out that, oh, duh, yeah, this is food. IOW they're kind of
dimwitted IMO even for fish.
I think my tank might be too small even for goldfish...
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Posted by Warm Worm on February 10, 2008, 9:26 pm
Don wrote:
> I want 100 acres, or more.
You're trying to bait me, aren't you. ;)
Some seem to never be satisfiable.
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