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Posted by Morris Dovey on February 17, 2008, 8:08 am
Kris Krieger wrote:
>
> > Gotta state the obvious: these panels aren't suitable for use as
> > load-bearing components. Less obvious: I /can/ build structural
> > panels, and I've worked out a way to integrate framing _and_
> > collector, but it'd only make sense for new construction.
>
> That's what I'd thought, but wanted to check. I think it's a good idea
> and also think it'd go well with a "contemporary" or "modern" style
> building (in quotes because I'm not sure whethe what i think of as
> contemporary or modern is still called that).
My taste runs toward streamline modern - and I think it'd be
wonderfully possible to integrate solar panels gracefully into
that kind of design. I'm not sure that anyone would be willing to
accept the result as bearing that same label, but I am sure that
it'd be both efficient _and_ aesthetically pleasing (to me).
> > Having laid that groundwork, I'll say that incorporating these
> > panels into a south-facing wall in such a way that they
> > /appeared/ to be the major portion of that wall would be more
> > than just "interesting".
>
> In my useage, "interesting" is a high compliment ;) and takes in
> everything from "clever and practical idea" to "potentially way-cool
> aesthetic" ;)
Thank you (I took it as a compliment.) The thrust of my remark
was that, depending on the length of that south wall, the space
might end up being considerably warmer in the winter than in the
summer. :-)
> > Panels in east/west walls will provide heat in morning/evening
> > which seems attractive until you realize that they'll do that on
> > a year-round basis. I wouldn't put 'em there without planning to
> > install covers every spring (and store 'em every fall). Even as
> > the proud designer/manufacturer, I think I'd rather have
> > east/west windows. :-)
>
> Re: panels specifically for heating, given that ther are things such as
> retractible awnings, it shouldn't be that much of a stretch to add in a
> recessed retractible Summer cover...
Of course - but plan on "cover" rather than "awning", because
simply shading these panels isn't enough to turn 'em off. My shop
is in an aircraft hanger and one partly cloudy day I opened the
door (45'W x 12'H), positioned a panel 15' inside the door facing
north, and measured a 7F temperature differential between intake
and discharge flows...
> >> An additional aspect - how to add solar panels in ways that wouldn't
> >> get you sued by the local suburban "architectural approval board"...
> >
> > That, fortunately, hasn't been a problem so far for any of my
> > customers. If it's like to be an issue for you, I'd suggest
> > getting favorable resolution before doing the installation.
>
> It seems like ther could be something like "heater bricks" - for example
> the bricks used on this house are hollow - there are 4 holes inside of
> each 9" brick. Seems to me that, for a cold climate, there ought to be a
> way of making the bricks out of soomething that collects the sun's heat,
> and uses those holes (?piping?) to transfer the heat around. Well, it's
> prob just another one of my wacky ideas. It just seems like there
> should be a wide variety of ways to take advantage of passive systems -
> well, there prob. are, and I don't know what to use as my search
> terms/phrases.
This is a really tough problem! A solution of the type you
suggest /may/ be possible, but probably not with currently
available materials. For a starting point, I'd suggest reading
everything you can root out of Wikipedia on "black body" and
"black body radiation". Warning: the math will make your head
hurt - I came away with a profound respect for Max Planck.
> > If that strikes you as interesting, you may enjoy looking over
> > another web page at
> >
> > http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Absorber.html
>
> Nifty :) In a hot climate, people still need hot water, so is it way
> off-base to think that this might also be applicable to heating water?
Absolutely. I built the my first two passive panels with
"stealthy" absorbers in the Hudson Valley in early 70's. One
panel was an air heater, and the other was a water heater that
gave me the only burn I've ever had from a flat panel. When I
started building panels full-time I focused on air heaters to
avoid all of the liabilities involved with water-heating
subsystems because there were just too many factors over which I
had no control, but which /could/ bite consumers.
> Normal houses, esp. in hot humid climates, just seem to me to be
> constantly at battle with themselves - even in hot dry climates, where
> passive methods work really well, almost all houses are the typical
> battelfield between trying to keep the interior cool an ddry, and
> creating heat sources for hot water and coooking. IOW, you have ot input
> energy to cool, AND energy to cook/wash, AND THEN add even more energy to
> cool the place after adding in the heat for cooking and hot water... It
> just seems a bit stupid to me.
I understand, but the cost of energy use is heat. With major help
from a good friend, I've been working to develop a
multi-horsepower fluidyne engine. The fluidyne is a liquid-piston
Stirling cycle engine whose only moving parts are air and water
(nothing to wear out!).
A Stirling cycle engine has some rather special properties: (1)
if heat energy is applied to its "hot side" and allowed to escape
from its "cold side", it produces mechanical energy, and (2) the
process is reversible - that is, if mechanical energy is applied
to drive the engine, it will /develop/ a hot side and a cold
side.
Our notion is to drive a (first) fluidyne with solar heat energy
to produce mechanical energy, and to then use that mechanical
energy to drive a (second) fluidyne to produce hot and cold
sides. There's no reason to keep the heat from the hot side, but
the cold side becomes the heart of a
refrigeration/air-conditioning unit that runs off (only) solar
radiation. :-)
If that captures your imagination, you can see a bit more at
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Stirling
The bottom line is that we can have heating and cooling both
without needing either fuel or electricity. I like that, but it
may just be my Scottish background at work. :-D
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
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