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Posted by Michael Bulatovich on December 14, 2007, 8:52 am
>
>> Do the Romani see assimilation as a threat to their continuation?
>
> Not easy to answer. Assimilation has been attempted for centuries, but
> the Roma go on. Take religious belief for example. "It is said" of my
> particular branch tribe of the so-called 16 tribes, that they originally
> followed the religion of "Zoster" (Zoroaster).
That places them in Persia, doesn't it?
>> Usually when a group manages to have their group identity survive over
>> long periods, it requires institutions of some kind. Jews have their
>> religion, language and, of course, their covenant. What do the Romani
>> have that binds them together for centuries as they move through often
>> hostile host cultures?
>
> With religion, you go with the flow. There is the 'Kris' or Council of
> elders, but that tends to be a fairly fluid, contingent arrangement.
> Usually, anyone called a "leader" or "king" is described as such for the
> ease and comfort of the host population, but there have been exceptions.
> In Romania, Jan Ciob declared himself King of the Gypsies and even got
> himself crowned as such in a church. (One of his brothers took exception
> to this, went back to Romania from the US, and declared himself Emperor.)
> The Dictator Nicolae Ceausescu (who gave everyone a bad time) was
> terrified of Jan, used to have nightmares that he was coming down the
> corridor to kill him. So Ceausescu maybe was a bit easier with Jan's
> people. I met someone who had met Jan; they described him as having "the
> wildest eyes I have ever seen in another human being". Seems that his
> daughter and granddaughter are carrying on the good work ...
He obviously didn't watch the Maple Leafs:
http://images.tsn.ca/images/stories/20040121/tucker_572.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/39pdk7
http://tinyurl.com/38awuq
http://tinyurl.com/356ym8
>> When I was a kid there was this family in my dad's ethnic enclave who
>> were pretty dark for Slavs. You'd think they were south Asian to look
>> at them, and they were *fabulous* folk dancers and musicians. One day
>> a guy came up to me and suggested that, on the basis of that, they
>> were 'actually' "tsigani". Now this guy was an idiot, but they were
>> *really* dark...I've heard of crypto-Jews...My (Hungarian) godmother
>> thought she was one.
>
> He was probably right. Often Roma are thought to be Jews, and the error
> can be useful. A lot of Roma were/are horse-trainers and wranglers in
> Holliwood, and were thought to be American Indians. Here in Australia one
> of our sons used to be asked if he was part-Aboriginal when he was a
> school kid. Useful if they happened to have caught some undersized fish.
> (Different 'rules' apply to indigenous people.)
> .
>> There's a club around the corner that has private events periodically.
>> I saw a woman standing near one of their posters while the party was
>> obviously on. I couldn't make out *any* of the language on it, and I
>> usually can, so I asked what was going on inside: "Romani Party" she
>> said.
>
> Could have been in a European language,
I'm familiar enough with all but Hungarian and Finish to extract a word or
two from just about any european language. If it was European, it was
Hungarian.
> but might have been Romanes -
> Sanscrit-based. Often used to justify an origin in the Indian sub-
> continent. However, Sanscrit originated as Phoenician. The Phoenicians
> were the traders of the early middle-eastern world, so if you traded,
> Phoenician was the language you used.
> 400km south of here on the eastern seaboard of Australia, there are the
> remains of a sea port, and carvings that are recognisable as Phoenician.
That's interesting. Any links?
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