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Posted by Warm Worm on February 15, 2008, 6:34 pm
Kris Krieger wrote:
>
>> Michael Bulatovich wrote:
>>>> Michael Bulatovich wrote:
>>>>>> There's a building that I'm in love with. It's not perfect, but it
>>>>>> has character, and an uncommon beauty, whimsy and delight all its
>>>>>> own, and I see much of my own character in it as well-- although
>>>>>> I'm unsure if its architects would agree.
>>>>> Picture? (Building, not you.)
>>>> Ironically, the building is a metaphor for a woman.
>>> Picture?
>> It might be nice, if only for historical reference.
>>
>> How do we choose that which we love, assuming we do?
>
> THat question probbly has as many answers as thre are people on the
> planet; to answer it, you can't look at what others do, you have to look
> deeply *and honestly* into yourself and explore your own motivations,
> desires, responses, and so on.
I'm speaking about _true_ love though. Is it really a choice? Is there
such a thing?
>> And in that regard, can the heart do battle with the mind and
>> vice-versa?
>>
> Do they actually battle?
Maybe it's more of an inner-dialoge?
> Or it is just that the superego, that part of
> us which is created by society, tells us to not be who we are and to not
> want what we want, because we're "supposed" to be, and want, what we are
> told to be and want? Society teaches us to present a persona, because ti
> is our "duty", our "obligation" - we are supposed to do and be what
> society tells us we "should" do and be - i.e. present a persona rather
> than to honestly be a person.
Reminds me of a letter I wrote recently for someone. Here's a clip:
"...what if we were imperceptibly and gradually stolen from one world,
and placed into another, different world-- one that appeared the same?
Would we notice, or lose ourselves, being replaced by a reflection of
the new world and of those in it? What if we then happened by chance
upon one of our own, or vice-versa? How would we even know?"
Reminds me also of a line from The Matrix:
"Have you ever had a dream... that you were so sure was real? What if
you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the
difference between the dream world and the real world?"
How do you wake someone loved up? What if they aren't ready? What do you
do if they go for the "blue pill"?
...Unfortunately, there were times when I wasn't ready...
Maybe there's indeed something to be said about not giving up one's pursuit.
> That screws up relationships, because the whole dating game, with its
> little rituals, is designed to encourage the persona while relegating the
> person to the distant background. Ritualized behaviors, such as a male
> bird presentign a female with bits of nesting material and/or plump
> insects, work for other animals, but with humans, it's eventually a
> hindrance, because all too often, people marry the personas, and then
> start having problems when it becomes inpossible to live a facade 24/7
> and the real person comes out - then people wail, "You're just not the
> same person I married!" Well, of course not, all of the rituals are
> designed to set up baby-making couples, NOT form the basis of emotional
> imtimacy.
And then they're single again and saddled with children of men they
don't love.
...Children of Men-- another good film.
> One of the offshoots of the dependence upon ritual is thae perennial, and
> perennially stupid, question of "What do women/men really want?" Such a
> wuestion assumes that ALL women and ALL men are simple, are
> simplistically capable only of following instinctual patterns. THe fact
> is that humans have *drives*, but not *instincts* - an instinct is a
> specific bahavior that is inborn, i.e. carried out by compulsion AND
> *exactly the same* in all members of a species - even if an animal is
> raised in isolation, it will still attempt to carry out the stereotypical
> behaviors; learning from other members refines behaviors but the
> bahaviors are largely intact.
>
> Humans are not that simple. So it's not just a simplistic matter of
> "give gift, get sex" for males and "give sex in return for child
> support" for females. What a woman wants depends upon the individual
> woman; what a man wants depends upon the individual man.
>
> Re: specific cases? I dunno, it depends upon the people involved. And I
> don't have any intuitive understandiing of people, just facts and
> theories.
If you're a person, then maybe you do have an intuitive, if possibly
never-provable, understanding of them.
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