A Horrible Mess with a Construction Project

Posted by RF on April 12, 2009, 3:29 pm

I bought a 10 acre lot roughly in the mid-west of
California in 2001. It took almost a year to get
my first appointment with the planners and 3 more
years to work the permits through an overloaded
and not-very-competent (putting it very mildly)
county. I finally had all the permits and I was
about to start construction when I discovered that
there was no electric supply at the lot, despite
what the realtors had told me and what was on the
sales fliers and the underground 3/4" cable in a
concrete box by the road-side. I tried to settle
the situation amicably by offering to pay 1/3 the
cost of getting the supply to the lot. Both
realtors refused the suggestion. It was then
litigated for several years. During that time the
county sent me an email indicating that the
permits were about to expire but they still could
be revived several times if they expired. I have
that email. I agreed to let them expire and when
the litigation was complete I contacted the county
and was told that I would have to start from
scratch and pay the fees again.

I offered to bring all the documents up to the
then-current code but they insisted that I had to
go through the whole process again. I am
struggling to find a way out of this mess, since
the county has no sympathy for my situation. I am
trying to get all the documentation up to date and
then sell the lot with the plans and let the new
owner handle the permit applications.

This is where this group may be able to help. I
have visited the web site:
http://www.dsa.dgs.ca.gov/Code/default.htm
and it gives lots of details of the changes but
most is very irrelevant to my needs. Does anyone
know of documentation that gives the actual
down-to-earth changes in the process since 2002. I
did all the design and drafting for the project. I
had the services of a soils engineer, a septic
system designer and a structural engineer. Apart
from those I did almost everything else. I now
have all the tracings in TIFF format on my
computer so, no more pencil and drafting board for me.

Advice will be much appreciated.

TIA

Posted by jloomis on April 12, 2009, 9:11 pm

Sounds like not securing the power supply early on in the sale was the major
problem. A contingency on having a septic permit, water, power, phone,
cable, and Building Ability would have been a wise move. I know many people
who buy properties always seem to tie it up with a contigency.

The Building Dept. is very difficult to deal with and I know. I live in
Northern Calif. and have lost jobs at the wait, for approval from all the
necessary authority. Another not, we have a new inspector and he does his
job so well it causes problems. I was getting a final, and he wanted to see
the toilet caulked and a few more antisiphon valves installed on the
existing house.
He also looked in the existing house, that we put windows in, and wanted 3
new smoke detectors intstalled.....He would not take my word that we would
do this, and I had to arrange for him to come out another day.....
He did not bother to inspect to see if the detectors were installed on his
second visit.......?
The toilet was going to get caulked by the painter after they painted the
concrete floor............so we caulked it prior to painting......to get a
final.

Anyway, I am glad it is over.....and see your dilemma.......
unfortunate......lots of work up in smoke so to speak.
All you can do is go to court and try to get the judge to agree with you,
but that would cost...........
jloomis

The other problem is not keeping the past permits current.

What a mess.........

>I bought a 10 acre lot roughly in the mid-west of California in 2001. It
>took almost a year to get my first appointment with the planners and 3 more
>years to work the permits through an overloaded and not-very-competent
>(putting it very mildly) county. I finally had all the permits and I was
>about to start construction when I discovered that there was no electric
>supply at the lot, despite what the realtors had told me and what was on
>the sales fliers and the underground 3/4" cable in a concrete box by the
>road-side. I tried to settle the situation amicably by offering to pay 1/3
>the cost of getting the supply to the lot. Both realtors refused the
>suggestion. It was then litigated for several years. During that time the
>county sent me an email indicating that the permits were about to expire
>but they still could be revived several times if they expired. I have that
>email. I agreed to let them expire and when the litigation was complete I
>contacted the county and was told that I would have to start from scratch
>and pay the fees again.
> I offered to bring all the documents up to the then-current code but they
> insisted that I had to go through the whole process again. I am struggling
> to find a way out of this mess, since the county has no sympathy for my
> situation. I am trying to get all the documentation up to date and then
> sell the lot with the plans and let the new owner handle the permit
> applications.
> This is where this group may be able to help. I have visited the web site:
> http://www.dsa.dgs.ca.gov/Code/default.htm
> and it gives lots of details of the changes but most is very irrelevant to
> my needs. Does anyone know of documentation that gives the actual
> down-to-earth changes in the process since 2002. I did all the design and
> drafting for the project. I had the services of a soils engineer, a septic
> system designer and a structural engineer. Apart from those I did almost
> everything else. I now have all the tracings in TIFF format on my computer
> so, no more pencil and drafting board for me.
> Advice will be much appreciated.
> TIA

Posted by Dioclese on April 14, 2009, 8:35 am

Since I participated very much in the decision end installation towards my
home (electric/water well/septic system). I understand your dilemma.

I do not understand how you did not know that electric supply was not
available on the lot. You seem to be participating from a desk, instead of
on-site. Since the electricity source is paramount over any other support
system, and needed in many cases to support those systems, its priority is
primary. I added 1 and 3 and came up with 4 years that this little unknown
was not verified in person.

Most realtors have no idea what's on an individual plat of undeveloped land
or lot other than its dimensions and obvious foliage. To have electricity
available for immediate use, a temporary or permanent meter loop must exist
on the property, not roadside. The meter loop allows the seller of the
electricity to monitor use of that, and bill the appropriate person for that
use.
--
Dave

Posted by RF on April 15, 2009, 1:37 am

Dioclese wrote:

>> I bought a 10 acre lot roughly in the mid-west of California in 2001. It
>> took almost a year to get my first appointment with the planners and 3 more
>> years to work the permits through an overloaded and not-very-competent
>> (putting it very mildly) county. I finally had all the permits and I was
>> about to start construction when I discovered that there was no electric
>> supply at the lot, despite what the realtors had told me and what was on
>> the sales fliers and the underground 3/4" cable in a concrete box by the
>> road-side. I tried to settle the situation amicably by offering to pay 1/3
>> the cost of getting the supply to the lot. Both realtors refused the
>> suggestion. It was then litigated for several years. During that time the
>> county sent me an email indicating that the permits were about to expire
>> but they still could be revived several times if they expired. I have that
>> email. I agreed to let them expire and when the litigation was complete I
>> contacted the county and was told that I would have to start from scratch
>> and pay the fees again.
>> I offered to bring all the documents up to the then-current code but they
>> insisted that I had to go through the whole process again. I am struggling
>> to find a way out of this mess, since the county has no sympathy for my
>> situation. I am trying to get all the documentation up to date and then
>> sell the lot with the plans and let the new owner handle the permit
>> applications.
>> This is where this group may be able to help. I have visited the web site:
>> http://www.dsa.dgs.ca.gov/Code/default.htm
>> and it gives lots of details of the changes but most is very irrelevant to
>> my needs. Does anyone know of documentation that gives the actual
>> down-to-earth changes in the process since 2002. I did all the design and
>> drafting for the project. I had the services of a soils engineer, a septic
>> system designer and a structural engineer. Apart from those I did almost
>> everything else. I now have all the tracings in TIFF format on my computer
>> so, no more pencil and drafting board for me.
>> Advice will be much appreciated.
>> TIA

>
> Since I participated very much in the decision end installation towards my
> home (electric/water well/septic system). I understand your dilemma.
>
> I do not understand how you did not know that electric supply was not
> available on the lot. You seem to be participating from a desk, instead of
> on-site. Since the electricity source is paramount over any other support
> system, and needed in many cases to support those systems, its priority is
> primary. I added 1 and 3 and came up with 4 years that this little unknown
> was not verified in person.
>
> Most realtors have no idea what's on an individual plat of undeveloped land
> or lot other than its dimensions and obvious foliage. To have electricity
> available for immediate use, a temporary or permanent meter loop must exist
> on the property, not roadside. The meter loop allows the seller of the
> electricity to monitor use of that, and bill the appropriate person for that
> use.

First, this is a private area with 10-acre
residential lots, and the utilities were supposed
to be running along a private road right by the
building pad. The water line was already installed
at the pad. There was a concrete box on the
roadside with a very heavy lid. I pried it up far
enough to see a 3/4" diameter cable lying at the
bottom. What would you think it was for? TV,
phone, fiber optic, fruit juice? :-)

In CA, the regulations do not allow PG&E to make
ANY installations until all permits are approved
and construction is ready to start.

Posted by Dioclese on April 15, 2009, 8:36 pm

> Dioclese wrote:

>>> I bought a 10 acre lot roughly in the mid-west of California in 2001. It
>>> took almost a year to get my first appointment with the planners and 3
>>> more years to work the permits through an overloaded and
>>> not-very-competent (putting it very mildly) county. I finally had all
>>> the permits and I was about to start construction when I discovered that
>>> there was no electric supply at the lot, despite what the realtors had
>>> told me and what was on the sales fliers and the underground 3/4" cable
>>> in a concrete box by the road-side. I tried to settle the situation
>>> amicably by offering to pay 1/3 the cost of getting the supply to the
>>> lot. Both realtors refused the suggestion. It was then litigated for
>>> several years. During that time the county sent me an email indicating
>>> that the permits were about to expire but they still could be revived
>>> several times if they expired. I have that email. I agreed to let them
>>> expire and when the litigation was complete I contacted the county and
>>> was told that I would have to start from scratch and pay the fees again.
>>> I offered to bring all the documents up to the then-current code but
>>> they insisted that I had to go through the whole process again. I am
>>> struggling to find a way out of this mess, since the county has no
>>> sympathy for my situation. I am trying to get all the documentation up
>>> to date and then sell the lot with the plans and let the new owner
>>> handle the permit applications.
>>> This is where this group may be able to help. I have visited the web
>>> site: http://www.dsa.dgs.ca.gov/Code/default.htm
>>> and it gives lots of details of the changes but most is very irrelevant
>>> to my needs. Does anyone know of documentation that gives the actual
>>> down-to-earth changes in the process since 2002. I did all the design
>>> and drafting for the project. I had the services of a soils engineer, a
>>> septic system designer and a structural engineer. Apart from those I did
>>> almost everything else. I now have all the tracings in TIFF format on my
>>> computer so, no more pencil and drafting board for me.
>>> Advice will be much appreciated.
>>> TIA

>> Since I participated very much in the decision end installation towards
>> my home (electric/water well/septic system). I understand your dilemma.
>> I do not understand how you did not know that electric supply was not
>> available on the lot. You seem to be participating from a desk, instead
>> of on-site. Since the electricity source is paramount over any other
>> support system, and needed in many cases to support those systems, its
>> priority is primary. I added 1 and 3 and came up with 4 years that this
>> little unknown was not verified in person.
>> Most realtors have no idea what's on an individual plat of undeveloped
>> land or lot other than its dimensions and obvious foliage. To have
>> electricity available for immediate use, a temporary or permanent meter
>> loop must exist on the property, not roadside. The meter loop allows the
>> seller of the electricity to monitor use of that, and bill the
>> appropriate person for that use.

> First, this is a private area with 10-acre residential lots, and the
> utilities were supposed to be running along a private road right by the
> building pad. The water line was already installed at the pad. There was a
> concrete box on the roadside with a very heavy lid. I pried it up far
> enough to see a 3/4" diameter cable lying at the bottom. What would you
> think it was for? TV, phone, fiber optic, fruit juice? :-)
> In CA, the regulations do not allow PG&E to make ANY installations until
> all permits are approved and construction is ready to start.

You may be able to BS some of the readers, I know better.

You answered your own question regarding electrical availability in the PG&E
reply. Sad, that means you can't even have a temporary meter loop for your
own use without intentions to build and plans approved for same. Very odd
indeed. Also find it either totally false, or, BS CA way.

Either way, the PG&E availability after all is approved. Which answers your
orginal question. Why are you here? I have no pity for anyone living in
CA, just move, forget the tea party and Hollywood politicians.
--
Dave

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