Advice--Generators: Built-in/Town Gas VS. Portable/Gasoline

Posted by on December 17, 2008, 11:50 am

> > Natural gas is almost always unaffected by electrical power outages. =

=A0And it

> > doesn't take a lot of electrical power to run a forced air natural gas
> > furnace. =A0I run both of mine plus other stuff with a 4400 portable
> > generator.

> Another question: Is it safe to quickly run the thing into a 20 amp
> outlet (so long as I keep it below 2Kw usage) assuming that I shut off
> the main circuit-breaker to the outside?
> This is something that concerns me. =A0I may need to loan such a device
> to unfortunate relatives in NH sometime who most likely will not have
> invested in a power transfer switch.

You will need to put stabil in it and if it does not get used for an
entire year you will want to get the gas out of it. Like I said
before, run the carb dry by leaving it on and tunring off the fuel
valve.

I get about a day or so out of the 5 gallon tank on my 4400 watt one.
I try to make sure the family understands to turn stuff off when they
are not using it. It basically runs the entire house except the
electric dryer, electric oven, and central ac. We have a gas cooktop
and a microwave so we use those for cooking. Two gas furnaces in the
winter. Everything else works ok, computers, tvs, etc. You can tell
when it's working hard though and if you run a lot of stuff you will
be adding gas more often. I keep some gas in the generator and a 5
gallon can full with stabil already added. I rotate it through my
lawn equipment gas supply. I have a boat that also usually has a
bunch of gas in it and if we're going to be down for days and the
roadways are a problem I syphon from the boat.

You will not be able to run central air with anything smaller than 8kw
or so depending on the size of your ac. The startup currrent for
central ac is huge.

Mine lives in my shed which has 220 run to it on a pair of 30 amp
breakers. Hole in the shed wall where the exhaust comes out. I have
a patch cord and 220 outlet in the shed that I backfeed the generator
to the house on. Totally against code and you absolutely need to make
sure that the main is off.

There is a little lockout plate for some brands of circuit breaker
panels that will lockout the first pair of breakers on one side if the
main is on. And locks out the main if those breakers are on. That is
code in some locations. That allows you to backfeed with those
breakers.

I made up dryer/generator patch cords for some of my neighbors. The
dryer circuot is big enough to backfeed up to about 5k or so. That is
a pretty easy way to go. You can often run the cord out the dryer
vent when you use it. Again, totally not code and dangerous if you
are not careful.

If you do somehow forget to turn off the main you will pop the
breakers on the generator pretty fast. But you could kill a lineman
somewhere trying to fix the power cause he thinks it off. Most of
them know they need to be careful when they hear generators running
around where they are working but you can't count on that.

Posted by on December 17, 2008, 11:56 am

On Dec 17, 11:50=A0am, jamesgan...@gmail.com wrote:

> > > Natural gas is almost always unaffected by electrical power outages. =

=A0And it

> > > doesn't take a lot of electrical power to run a forced air natural ga=

> > > furnace. =A0I run both of mine plus other stuff with a 4400 portable
> > > generator.

> > Another question: Is it safe to quickly run the thing into a 20 amp
> > outlet (so long as I keep it below 2Kw usage) assuming that I shut off
> > the main circuit-breaker to the outside?
> > This is something that concerns me. =A0I may need to loan such a device
> > to unfortunate relatives in NH sometime who most likely will not have
> > invested in a power transfer switch.

> You will need to put stabil in it and if it does not get used for an
> entire year you will want to get the gas out of it. =A0Like I said
> before, run the carb dry by leaving it on and tunring off the fuel
> valve.
> I get about a day or so out of the 5 gallon tank on my 4400 watt one.
> I try to make sure the family understands to turn stuff off when they
> are not using it. =A0It basically runs the entire house except the
> electric dryer, electric oven, and central ac. =A0We have a gas cooktop
> and a microwave so we use those for cooking. =A0Two gas furnaces in the
> winter. =A0Everything else works ok, computers, tvs, etc. =A0You can tell
> when it's working hard though and if you run a lot of stuff you will
> be adding gas more often. =A0I keep some gas in the generator and a 5
> gallon can full with stabil already added. =A0I rotate it through my
> lawn equipment gas supply. =A0I have a boat that also usually has a
> bunch of gas in it and if we're going to be down for days and the
> roadways are a problem I syphon from the boat.
> You will not be able to run central air with anything smaller than 8kw
> or so depending on the size of your ac. =A0The startup currrent for
> central ac is huge.
> Mine lives in my shed which has 220 run to it on a pair of 30 amp
> breakers. =A0Hole in the shed wall where the exhaust comes out. =A0I have
> a patch cord and 220 outlet in the shed that I backfeed the generator
> to the house on. =A0Totally against code and you absolutely need to make
> sure that the main is off.
> There is a little lockout plate for some brands of circuit breaker
> panels that will lockout the first pair of breakers on one side if the
> main is on. =A0And locks out the main if those breakers are on. =A0That i=

> code in some locations. =A0That allows you to backfeed with those
> breakers.
> I made up dryer/generator patch cords for some of my neighbors. =A0The
> dryer circuot is big enough to backfeed up to about 5k or so. =A0That is
> a pretty easy way to go. =A0You can often run the cord out the dryer
> vent when you use it. =A0Again, totally not code and dangerous if you
> are not careful.
> If you do somehow forget to turn off the main you will pop the
> breakers on the generator pretty fast. =A0But you could kill a lineman
> somewhere trying to fix the power cause he thinks it off. =A0Most of
> them know they need to be careful when they hear generators running
> around where they are working but you can't count on that.

Here's that interlock from square d. Only works with their panels I
think but might be adaptable if you're clever.

http://www.squared.com/us/applications/residential.nsf/unid/FD8CBE7A9E1445D=
085256D1A00538807/$file/GenIntKit.pdf

Posted by on December 17, 2008, 12:01 pm

On Dec 17, 11:56=A0am, jamesgan...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Dec 17, 11:50=A0am, jamesgan...@gmail.com wrote:

> > > > Natural gas is almost always unaffected by electrical power outages=

. =A0And it

> > > > doesn't take a lot of electrical power to run a forced air natural =

gas

> > > > furnace. =A0I run both of mine plus other stuff with a 4400 portabl=

> > > > generator.
> > > Another question: Is it safe to quickly run the thing into a 20 amp
> > > outlet (so long as I keep it below 2Kw usage) assuming that I shut of=

> > > the main circuit-breaker to the outside?
> > > This is something that concerns me. =A0I may need to loan such a devi=

> > > to unfortunate relatives in NH sometime who most likely will not have
> > > invested in a power transfer switch.

> > You will need to put stabil in it and if it does not get used for an
> > entire year you will want to get the gas out of it. =A0Like I said
> > before, run the carb dry by leaving it on and tunring off the fuel
> > valve.
> > I get about a day or so out of the 5 gallon tank on my 4400 watt one.
> > I try to make sure the family understands to turn stuff off when they
> > are not using it. =A0It basically runs the entire house except the
> > electric dryer, electric oven, and central ac. =A0We have a gas cooktop
> > and a microwave so we use those for cooking. =A0Two gas furnaces in the
> > winter. =A0Everything else works ok, computers, tvs, etc. =A0You can te=

> > when it's working hard though and if you run a lot of stuff you will
> > be adding gas more often. =A0I keep some gas in the generator and a 5
> > gallon can full with stabil already added. =A0I rotate it through my
> > lawn equipment gas supply. =A0I have a boat that also usually has a
> > bunch of gas in it and if we're going to be down for days and the
> > roadways are a problem I syphon from the boat.
> > You will not be able to run central air with anything smaller than 8kw
> > or so depending on the size of your ac. =A0The startup currrent for
> > central ac is huge.
> > Mine lives in my shed which has 220 run to it on a pair of 30 amp
> > breakers. =A0Hole in the shed wall where the exhaust comes out. =A0I ha=

> > a patch cord and 220 outlet in the shed that I backfeed the generator
> > to the house on. =A0Totally against code and you absolutely need to mak=

> > sure that the main is off.
> > There is a little lockout plate for some brands of circuit breaker
> > panels that will lockout the first pair of breakers on one side if the
> > main is on. =A0And locks out the main if those breakers are on. =A0That=

> > code in some locations. =A0That allows you to backfeed with those
> > breakers.
> > I made up dryer/generator patch cords for some of my neighbors. =A0The
> > dryer circuot is big enough to backfeed up to about 5k or so. =A0That i=

> > a pretty easy way to go. =A0You can often run the cord out the dryer
> > vent when you use it. =A0Again, totally not code and dangerous if you
> > are not careful.
> > If you do somehow forget to turn off the main you will pop the
> > breakers on the generator pretty fast. =A0But you could kill a lineman
> > somewhere trying to fix the power cause he thinks it off. =A0Most of
> > them know they need to be careful when they hear generators running
> > around where they are working but you can't count on that.

> Here's that interlock from square d. =A0Only works with their panels I
> think but might be adaptable if you're clever.
> http://www.squared.com/us/applications/residential.nsf/unid/FD8CBE7A9...-=

Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -

These guys have a bunch of them.

http://www.interlockkit.com/

Posted by ransley on December 17, 2008, 10:26 am

> I can calculate the wattage needed by my house (including surges for
> the water pump, etc.), but I'm stuck on the fundamentals.
> 1. Is there ever a power outage where the town gas itself is shut
> off? =A0It seems to have survived (was always on) during the recent uber-
> blackout here in central mass.
> 2. Any words of wisdom of a house generator running on town gas /
> propane (permanently installed outside box) vs. a portable one on a
> cart running on gasoline?
> 3. Are there brands more likely than not to remain functional year
> after year without maintenance?
> THANKS!!!!!!!!!

If you dont want to maintain it every time you use it you really dont
qualify to own one from several perspectives. Its not a car, its
doesnt cut grass, it makes electricity that can kill and ruin
everything in your home and may not work when you need it. It makes
220v. 60hz at 3600 rpm. My friend an electrician didnt check his new
unit, he turned it on and it blew his new tv in minutes, it was out
putting near 145v-290v. Its rpm was simply to high. You must know no
load, full load output and know and adjust it. Oil has to be checked
and changed by hours, not when you "feel like it" Gas goes bad even
with "Stabil" Portables should be grounded, checked for output, oil,
and have a transfer switch. If you are set on no active participation
its not for you, its not cutting the lawn, its creating something you
take to much for granted that you want to ignore. A whole house unit
needs maintenance, and monitoring, its just a cheap machine, so to
recommend anything to you would be to only not get anything until you
are commited to knowing, and taking care of what you get before
deciding on a unit. Talk to any heating contractor in a week, he will
be telling you of all the heating plants that has circuit boards fried
from generators, alot of bad things happen to careless operators that
are not covered by insurance.

Posted by jamesgangnc on December 18, 2008, 7:52 am

I think you're over reacting. Thousands of people use portable generators
without problems. And routine maintenance is no more complicated that a
lawn mower.

> I can calculate the wattage needed by my house (including surges for
> the water pump, etc.), but I'm stuck on the fundamentals.
> 1. Is there ever a power outage where the town gas itself is shut
> off? It seems to have survived (was always on) during the recent uber-
> blackout here in central mass.
> 2. Any words of wisdom of a house generator running on town gas /
> propane (permanently installed outside box) vs. a portable one on a
> cart running on gasoline?
> 3. Are there brands more likely than not to remain functional year
> after year without maintenance?
> THANKS!!!!!!!!!

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