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Posted by ransley on December 18, 2008, 8:40 am
> I think you're over reacting. =A0Thousands of people use portable generat=
ors
> without problems. =A0And routine maintenance is no more complicated that =
a
> lawn mower.
> > I can calculate the wattage needed by my house (including surges for
> > the water pump, etc.), but I'm stuck on the fundamentals.
> > 1. Is there ever a power outage where the town gas itself is shut
> > off? It seems to have survived (was always on) during the recent uber-
> > blackout here in central mass.
> > 2. Any words of wisdom of a house generator running on town gas /
> > propane (permanently installed outside box) vs. a portable one on a
> > cart running on gasoline?
> > 3. Are there brands more likely than not to remain functional year
> > after year without maintenance?
> > THANKS!!!!!!!!!
> If you dont want to maintain it every time you use it you really dont
> qualify to own one from several perspectives. Its not a car, its
> doesnt cut grass, it makes electricity that can kill and ruin
> everything in your home and may not work when you need it. It makes
> 220v. 60hz at 3600 rpm. My friend an electrician didnt check his new
> unit, he turned it on and it blew his new tv in minutes, it was out
> putting near 145v-290v. Its rpm was simply to high. You must know no
> load, full load output and know and adjust it. Oil has to be checked
> and changed by hours, not when you "feel like it" Gas goes bad even
> with "Stabil" Portables should be grounded, checked for output, oil,
> and have a transfer switch. If you are set on no active participation
> its not for you, its not cutting the lawn, its creating something you
> take to much for granted that you want to ignore. A whole house unit
> needs maintenance, and monitoring, its just a cheap machine, so to
> recommend anything to you would be to only not get anything until you
> are commited to knowing, and taking care of what you get before
> deciding on a unit. Talk to any heating contractor in a week, he will
> be telling you of all the heating plants that has circuit boards fried
> from generators, alot of bad things happen to careless operators that
> are not covered by insurance.
Over react, no , talk to heating an insurance folks. Honda you can
feel fairly safe is calibrated before shipped, I have seen a few of
these from factory that are off enough to damage equipment. Sure alot
of folks use them, alot of folks take to much for granted.
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Posted by jamesgangnc on December 18, 2008, 9:11 am
Just about everything these days can take considerable variation in
voltages. Some stuff even works on 220 without changing a switch. I agree
that you need to make sure the voltage is reasonably close but they are
calibrated at the factory. An extreme overvoltage is obvious when you
connect an incandesent light to it.
Hvac people just like to find reasons to blame things, I've never met a more
full of themselves field. The fan motor in an air handler can take a
voltage variation of 10 to 15% either way. The control board is powered by
a low voltage circuit. If the manufacturer's engineer was any good at all
he put a voltage regulator in the pwoer supply circuit. They are a dime a
dozen. Even if he didn't, the transfomer is going to reduce the overvoltage
by a factor of 10. 10 volts over will be 1 volt over on the low voltage
side. Hardly a catastrophy. The rest of the parts on the board should also
be rated for at least 30% over the working voltage or again you had a moron
for an engineer.
Most modern electronics today use switching power supplies because they are
cheaper and ligher that a suitably sized transformer. Switching power
supplies can take huge input voltage variations.
Admittedly you need a little common sense and a basic understanding of
electricity to use a portable generator. But again, thousands of people use
them all the time without problems.
> I think you're over reacting. Thousands of people use portable generators
> without problems. And routine maintenance is no more complicated that a
> lawn mower.
> > I can calculate the wattage needed by my house (including surges for
> > the water pump, etc.), but I'm stuck on the fundamentals.
> > 1. Is there ever a power outage where the town gas itself is shut
> > off? It seems to have survived (was always on) during the recent uber-
> > blackout here in central mass.
> > 2. Any words of wisdom of a house generator running on town gas /
> > propane (permanently installed outside box) vs. a portable one on a
> > cart running on gasoline?
> > 3. Are there brands more likely than not to remain functional year
> > after year without maintenance?
> > THANKS!!!!!!!!!
> If you dont want to maintain it every time you use it you really dont
> qualify to own one from several perspectives. Its not a car, its
> doesnt cut grass, it makes electricity that can kill and ruin
> everything in your home and may not work when you need it. It makes
> 220v. 60hz at 3600 rpm. My friend an electrician didnt check his new
> unit, he turned it on and it blew his new tv in minutes, it was out
> putting near 145v-290v. Its rpm was simply to high. You must know no
> load, full load output and know and adjust it. Oil has to be checked
> and changed by hours, not when you "feel like it" Gas goes bad even
> with "Stabil" Portables should be grounded, checked for output, oil,
> and have a transfer switch. If you are set on no active participation
> its not for you, its not cutting the lawn, its creating something you
> take to much for granted that you want to ignore. A whole house unit
> needs maintenance, and monitoring, its just a cheap machine, so to
> recommend anything to you would be to only not get anything until you
> are commited to knowing, and taking care of what you get before
> deciding on a unit. Talk to any heating contractor in a week, he will
> be telling you of all the heating plants that has circuit boards fried
> from generators, alot of bad things happen to careless operators that
> are not covered by insurance.
Over react, no , talk to heating an insurance folks. Honda you can
feel fairly safe is calibrated before shipped, I have seen a few of
these from factory that are off enough to damage equipment. Sure alot
of folks use them, alot of folks take to much for granted.
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Posted by Thomas G. Marshall on December 18, 2008, 9:37 am
> Just about everything these days can take considerable variation in
> voltages. =A0Some stuff even works on 220 without changing a switch. =A0I=
agree
> that you need to make sure the voltage is reasonably close but they are
> calibrated at the factory. =A0An extreme overvoltage is obvious when you
> connect an incandesent light to it.
> Hvac people just like to find reasons to blame things, I've never met a m=
ore
> full of themselves field. =A0The fan motor in an air handler can take a
> voltage variation of 10 to 15% either way. =A0The control board is powere=
d by
> a low voltage circuit. =A0If the manufacturer's engineer was any good at =
all
> he put a voltage regulator in the pwoer supply circuit. =A0They are a dim=
e a
> dozen. =A0Even if he didn't, the transfomer is going to reduce the overvo=
ltage
> by a factor of 10. =A010 volts over will be 1 volt over on the low voltag=
e
> side. =A0Hardly a catastrophy. =A0The rest of the parts on the board shou=
ld also
> be rated for at least 30% over the working voltage or again you had a mor=
on
> for an engineer.
> Most modern electronics today use switching power supplies because they a=
re
> cheaper and ligher that a suitably sized transformer. =A0Switching power
> supplies can take huge input voltage variations.
> Admittedly you need a little common sense and a basic understanding of
> electricity to use a portable generator. =A0But again, thousands of peopl=
e use
> them all the time without problems.
Yes. Besides, there is a fundamental flaw in quoting results seen by
the insurance and HVAC bunch. Statistically, *THEY* will be the ones
to see the trouble and have the troublesome stories. The vast
majority of cases where there was no incident remains under the
statistical radar.
It's like asking someone who works in the ER if there are a lot of
motorcycle accidents. Of course they will see that.
There is an implication to be further cleared up as a result of
ransley's post too. The reason that I am looking for as low a
maintenance item as possible is because as a stay-at-home dad my time
is limited. I cannot be burdened with something that only works if I
twice a year run to the hardware store to get the items I need to
service the thing.
Regarding this: From most people I've spoken to, Honda engines
maintain a nifty magic to it that makes it "start of the first
pull" (non-electric starters) almost regardless of the amount of time
it has been left alone with old gas or stabil'd. Empirically, My
Honda motorcycle was meticulously kept so it's ability to always start
was understood. But my honda snow blower had that one-pull magic to
it and I rarely use it and never did anything except change the oil
once.
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Posted by on December 18, 2008, 11:42 am
> > Just about everything these days can take considerable variation in
> > voltages. =A0Some stuff even works on 220 without changing a switch. =
=A0I agree
> > that you need to make sure the voltage is reasonably close but they are
> > calibrated at the factory. =A0An extreme overvoltage is obvious when yo=
u
> > connect an incandesent light to it.
> > Hvac people just like to find reasons to blame things, I've never met a=
more
> > full of themselves field. =A0The fan motor in an air handler can take a
> > voltage variation of 10 to 15% either way. =A0The control board is powe=
red by
> > a low voltage circuit. =A0If the manufacturer's engineer was any good a=
t all
> > he put a voltage regulator in the pwoer supply circuit. =A0They are a d=
ime a
> > dozen. =A0Even if he didn't, the transfomer is going to reduce the over=
voltage
> > by a factor of 10. =A010 volts over will be 1 volt over on the low volt=
age
> > side. =A0Hardly a catastrophy. =A0The rest of the parts on the board sh=
ould also
> > be rated for at least 30% over the working voltage or again you had a m=
oron
> > for an engineer.
> > Most modern electronics today use switching power supplies because they=
are
> > cheaper and ligher that a suitably sized transformer. =A0Switching powe=
r
> > supplies can take huge input voltage variations.
> > Admittedly you need a little common sense and a basic understanding of
> > electricity to use a portable generator. =A0But again, thousands of peo=
ple use
> > them all the time without problems.
> Yes. =A0Besides, there is a fundamental flaw in quoting results seen by
> the insurance and HVAC bunch. =A0Statistically, *THEY* will be the ones
> to see the trouble and have the troublesome stories. =A0The vast
> majority of cases where there was no incident remains under the
> statistical radar.
> It's like asking someone who works in the ER if there are a lot of
> motorcycle accidents. =A0Of course they will see that.
> There is an implication to be further cleared up as a result of
> ransley's post too. =A0The reason that I am looking for as low a
> maintenance item as possible is because as a stay-at-home dad my time
> is limited. =A0I cannot be burdened with something that only works if I
> twice a year run to the hardware store to get the items I need to
> service the thing.
> Regarding this: From most people I've spoken to, Honda engines
> maintain a nifty magic to it that makes it "start of the first
> pull" (non-electric starters) almost regardless of the amount of time
> it has been left alone with old gas or stabil'd. =A0Empirically, My
> Honda motorcycle was meticulously kept so it's ability to always start
> was understood. =A0But my honda snow blower had that one-pull magic to
> it and I rarely use it and never did anything except change the oil
> once.- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
Honda generally makes an excellent product. You will pay a fair bit
more for a honda generator that a more "generic" one that is simply an
8 to 10 horse techumsen with a generator bolted onto it like mine.
Gas deterioration is a problem no matter what generator you get. Gas
eventually goes bad. With treatment it can stay good sometimes even
for a couple years. I just got a like new wood chipper for $100 that
basically had nothing wrong with it but a tank of bad gas. The
trouble with the generators as compared to other things is that you
have no idea how much longer you're going to need it or when you will
need it again. That's why I always put additive in mine. I have
still had to drain the gas a couple times because it had been over a
year since I used it.
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Posted by ransley on December 19, 2008, 1:49 pm
> > Just about everything these days can take considerable variation in
> > voltages. =A0Some stuff even works on 220 without changing a switch. =
=A0I agree
> > that you need to make sure the voltage is reasonably close but they are
> > calibrated at the factory. =A0An extreme overvoltage is obvious when yo=
u
> > connect an incandesent light to it.
> > Hvac people just like to find reasons to blame things, I've never met a=
more
> > full of themselves field. =A0The fan motor in an air handler can take a
> > voltage variation of 10 to 15% either way. =A0The control board is powe=
red by
> > a low voltage circuit. =A0If the manufacturer's engineer was any good a=
t all
> > he put a voltage regulator in the pwoer supply circuit. =A0They are a d=
ime a
> > dozen. =A0Even if he didn't, the transfomer is going to reduce the over=
voltage
> > by a factor of 10. =A010 volts over will be 1 volt over on the low volt=
age
> > side. =A0Hardly a catastrophy. =A0The rest of the parts on the board sh=
ould also
> > be rated for at least 30% over the working voltage or again you had a m=
oron
> > for an engineer.
> > Most modern electronics today use switching power supplies because they=
are
> > cheaper and ligher that a suitably sized transformer. =A0Switching powe=
r
> > supplies can take huge input voltage variations.
> > Admittedly you need a little common sense and a basic understanding of
> > electricity to use a portable generator. =A0But again, thousands of peo=
ple use
> > them all the time without problems.
> Yes. =A0Besides, there is a fundamental flaw in quoting results seen by
> the insurance and HVAC bunch. =A0Statistically, *THEY* will be the ones
> to see the trouble and have the troublesome stories. =A0The vast
> majority of cases where there was no incident remains under the
> statistical radar.
> It's like asking someone who works in the ER if there are a lot of
> motorcycle accidents. =A0Of course they will see that.
> There is an implication to be further cleared up as a result of
> ransley's post too. =A0The reason that I am looking for as low a
> maintenance item as possible is because as a stay-at-home dad my time
> is limited. =A0I cannot be burdened with something that only works if I
> twice a year run to the hardware store to get the items I need to
> service the thing.
> Regarding this: From most people I've spoken to, Honda engines
> maintain a nifty magic to it that makes it "start of the first
> pull" (non-electric starters) almost regardless of the amount of time
> it has been left alone with old gas or stabil'd. =A0Empirically, My
> Honda motorcycle was meticulously kept so it's ability to always start
> was understood. =A0But my honda snow blower had that one-pull magic to
> it and I rarely use it and never did anything except change the oil
> once.- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
The point is its not a lawnmower "Under the radar" Then why have the
only 3 Ive seen been set up poorly, because nodody checks these things
and maybe that "tester" at Co.X is hung over or quiting in a week and
doesnt care. Knowing it means simply putting a volt meter on it before
you first turn it on and see how it operates under no load load. That
is the basics all need to follow. Once you know what it does its not
something to test or fix every time. Leaving gas in it even with
stabil will eventualy crud up the carb, so go propane or Ng. 3600 rpm
is needed for 60hz 120v most units have govenors that easily go off,
Do what you wish.
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