Building Packages???

Posted by RO on February 19, 2009, 11:04 pm

I'm going to take advantage of this slow down and build a house. I haven't
built in over a decade and was wondering if some of you builders could give
me a bit of advice regarding the best way to get bids on materials. For
instance, are you better off bidding the lumber/framing material separate
or adding all the other parts like windows, hardwood floors, plumbing,
electrical - in other words putting as much into just one package. How
about places like Home Depot as opposed to lumber yards. Are you better
off getting the Trusses from a Truss manufacturer instead of a lumber yard?

Thanks,
RO

--
Robert Olin
Bob's Water & Septic LLC
jolin@whidbey.net
http://soilsandseptic.com/bobs.html

Posted by John Grabowski on February 20, 2009, 9:09 am

> I'm going to take advantage of this slow down and build a house. I
> haven't built in over a decade and was wondering if some of you builders
> could give me a bit of advice regarding the best way to get bids on
> materials. For instance, are you better off bidding the lumber/framing
> material separate or adding all the other parts like windows, hardwood
> floors, plumbing, electrical - in other words putting as much into just
> one package. How about places like Home Depot as opposed to lumber yards.
> Are you better off getting the Trusses from a Truss manufacturer instead
> of a lumber yard?

*It seems to me that you would be better off doing separate packages because
you will need different materials at different stages of construction.
Unless you have a place for storage, you will not want to have your windows
delivered at the same time as your framing materials. It may be possible to
work out an arrangement with a supplier that they will deliver materials
from your bid package as you need them.

Off hand I cannot think of a supplier that will have all of the plumbing,
electrical, wood etc under one roof. Even Home Depot and Lowes do not have
everything that you will need.

Be sure to specify part numbers, manufacturers, and grades when specifying
materials so that you can compare apples to apples.

Posted by Dioclese on February 20, 2009, 9:21 am

I'll admit it, I got a cheap contractor and a cheap house. I did spend alot
of time watching deliveries. In that light, I noticed they got their
framing lumber from a small city lumber company much further away than the
rest of their materials sources. Was impressed as all were practically knot
free and straight as an arrow.

Big-box stores are retailer acting a front for other companies. You pay for
their fee and the source fee.

Bids are fine if spec bidding. General description bidding can get you into
trouble, you may not get what you expect exactly. Workmanship in finished
products, you have check yourself prior to purchase.
--
Dave

CDOs are how we got here.
A modified version, new taxes in the future, is how Congress will get us
out?

Posted by HerHusband on February 20, 2009, 11:55 am

> I'm going to take advantage of this slow down and build a house. I
> haven't built in over a decade and was wondering if some of you
> builders could give me a bit of advice regarding the best way to get
> bids on materials. For instance, are you better off bidding the
> lumber/framing material separate or adding all the other parts like
> windows, hardwood floors, plumbing, electrical - in other words
> putting as much into just one package. How about places like Home
> Depot as opposed to lumber yards. Are you better off getting the
> Trusses from a Truss manufacturer instead of a lumber yard?

I'm just a do-it-yourselfer, but my wife and I built our own house back
in 2003/2004. We didn't go out of our way to find any special deals on
materials, but here's a few things we learned along the way.

1. Whenever possible, do things yourself. I had planned to hire out our
garage foundation, but wasted months trying to find a company to do the
work. Half didn't even answer the phone, most of the rest either said the
job was "too small" or "too big". Three company's agreed to come out and
bid on the job, but only one actually showed up and they wanted to do
things their own way instead of what our plans showed (they wanted to
step the foundation up and down all over the place instead of digging
down 6" to make it level all the way around). Keep in mind, this was a
simple 24'x28' perimeter footing and wall, nothing complex. In the end,
we built our own forms and poured the foundation ourselves. It cost less
and turned out the way we wanted.

2. Know your limits. While there aren't many things I can't do by myself
with careful planning, some items just need man power. Our garage floor
slab was one example. I had to call a company in a small neighboring town
to find someone who would do the job, but even with four guys in the crew
they were working their butts off. It's certainly not a job I could have
done solo, regardless of how much skill or experience I had.

3. The home centers (Lowes, Home Depot, etc.) have great prices on items
like plumbing, electrical, hardware, and appliances. They're also open
late hours if you need to make a 7pm run to pick up an extra sheet of
drywall or a few more 2x4's. While I didn't do a lot of comparison
shopping, the home centers almost always beat out the local plumbing and
electrical stores on price. However, some specialty items like plumbing
test balloons were only available at the dedicated plumbing stores. We
ordered all of our doors, windows, and carpeting, through the home
centers.

4. For the main lumber orders, the local lumber yard was much better than
the home centers. They included delivery at no charge, and we got
"contractor pricing" just because of the size of our orders.

5. I needed some custom roof trusses for a section of our house, so it
only made sense to go directly to the truss company rather than ordering
through a lumber yard or home center. I showed them my rough sketches of
what I was needing, and they engineered it all for me and delivered the
trusses right to the site. Normally they set the trusses right on the
walls, but they couldn't get the truck down our drive and had to set the
trusses on the ground. So my wife and I had to carry each truss down to
the house and put them up on the walls by hand.

6. Roofing shingles were also less expensive with better delivery options
when purchased directly from the roofing company.

7. Price isn't everything. I was told by my inspector and a few others
that insulation contracters could insulate my entire house cheaper than I
could buy the materials alone. But we bought insulation from the home
centers and installed it ourselves anyway. We did it mostly because we
like doing our own work and like to know how every inch of the house is
put together.

8. Don't rule out surplus or discount materials. We wanted T&G wood
ceilings in our house, but local lumber prices would have made that
prohibitive. I ran across a company a few hundred miles north that sold
large bundles of #3 lumber at very attractive prices. It took a bit of
work to cut around the knots and other blemishes in the #3 lumber, but we
ended up with a lot of good lumber. While approximately 30-50 percent of
each bundle ended up being waste, the total cost was still less than half
what it would have cost locally. I made use of much of the waste lumber
to build cabinet doors, and we burned the remainder in our woodstove the
first year or two.

9. We ordered all of our plumbing fixtures, some specialty lighting, and
a few other items online. Not only were the prices much better, but we
had selection that just wasn't available locally.

10. We bought our hardwood flooring from Lumber Liquidators. They had the
best prices and selection we couldn't find elsewhere.

11. We ordered our drywall from a specialty drywall company. They had
better prices than the home centers, could supply a better variety of
sheet sizes (i.e. 4x14's), and they delivered. Again, our site didn't
allow the truck to get to the house, so these two big burley boys hand
carried every sheet of drywall down to the house. That alone was WELL
worth the expense! :)

12. Rent items you won't use often. While I bought my own compressor, air
nailers, and other power tools, it's smarter to rent the items you only
use occasionally. For example, I rented a bobcat two or three different
times for excavating and later landscaping, a plate compactor for laying
down paver walkways, and even smaller items like a jackhammer to break up
an old sidewalk.

13. Support the companies that provide good service. At the start, we
found a concrete company that mixes on-site. It's a great option that
eliminates waste, and the owner helped us out a lot along the way. So we
made a point to hire his services over and over again for later projects,
regardless of whether he was still the cheapest.

14. Get to know the inspectors. While I had heard horror stories from
other family members dealing with inspectors on various projects, I
really enjoyed interacting with our inspectors. I welcomed their
feedback, corrected the few items they found lacking, and asked their
advice on many items. They caught a couple of items I had overlooked, and
gave me some suggestions for ways I could improve things above the
"minimums" needed. We had several inspectors over our two year project
and I had nothing but positive relations with all of them. The ones that
came out multiple times seemed to enjoy seeing our progress with each
visit as well.

That's my two cents, for whatever it's worth... :)

Anthony

Posted by jloomis on February 20, 2009, 9:16 pm

I like to seperate my material list:
Foundation and rough framing materials including siding and roofing.
I get bids from reputable door and window people.
When there is a problem they can deal with it.
At a Big Box Store, no one knows anything......
I like to shop local and do get bids to compare.
Low bids are not always good.
Return Policy and material delivery are important factors.
If you deal with a store far away, material delivery and return can present
problems.
Also, when you need items, you may not want all the material there at once.
You may have to stack or protect siding, plywood, etc.
I do like to get framing there and use up every stick and then order
more....
so you do not end up with too much on the job.
Electrical and plumbing can be handled seperately and if you go with a
reputible store, and they give you a good price on framing, they may also
quote you fair price on hardware.........Always let them know you are
getting prices......I do this with a copy to them....They will be more apt
to sharpen the pencil,
jloomis

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