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Building a new school Lou 01-23-2007
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Posted by Michael Bulatovich on January 23, 2007, 1:47 pm

>
> Given the questions asked by MB and the answers you provided, I see
> that you
>> are mostly concerned about getting this done as cheaply as possible.
> Actually, cheap has nothing to do with it, I'm more
> concerned with waste.
>
> Although I think you lack some info on how the process works.
> I'm sure that I do lack info on the process but so far
> everything that I have been learning
> is the opposite of what is being done.
>
>> Typically in the US, most public school projects fall under the states
>> jurisdiction which also may have some federal assistance. The design firm
>> should have had a budget and design criteria going into the project so
>> that
>> $45 mil, may or may not be a realistic number. Especially if it comes
>> from
>> just one contractor.
> I agree, but with this one, a number was pick out of a hat
> from, of all people, the architecht.
> by the way, he gets a 2.5m bonus upon completion.

More likely a payment installment.



Posted by clintonG on January 23, 2007, 10:12 am
I'm serious in wondering why a school district doesn't get clever and try to
buy a couple dozen of the mobile housing units sitting around amongts the
thousands brought down to Louisiana after the Katrina hurricane?

--
<%= Clinton Gallagher
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/
MAP http://wikimapia.org/#y=43038073&x=-88043838&z=17&l=0&m=h

> Ok, anyone here have experience with school construction? Our school
> district is asking for a ton of money to build
> the most abstract design of a school you have ever seen. We are a small
> community and this could bankrupt the town. However, we do need more
> space. I'm looking for a place to find out what the rules in school
> construction might be. One big "for instance" would be,,,, Can a school
> be built from the same kind of steel truss buildings that those huge
> airplane hangers are constructed from? These hangers seem to stay
> standing. Also I see quite a few other building being built and looking
> rather good from these steel truss buildings. Has anyone been involved
> in this kind of construction?
> Lou
>



Posted by DAvid Norris on January 24, 2007, 5:00 am
I've built quite a few schools over the last 15 years and they are all
spread out money/ space wasters. A multi story rectangle would be the
most efficient just like schools used to be. Elevators and backup
generators can null any ADA issues as well as creating public shelters
in time of disaster. The bottom line is it is not the school boards
money it is your money and your neighbors. I built two middle schools
right next to each other that were the exact same design about five
years apart, instead of correcting whatever dimensions that were wrong
with the first school every bit of iron in the second school was wrong
in exactly the same places.

Posted by Dan Deckert on January 23, 2007, 10:32 pm

> Ok, anyone here have experience with school construction? Our school
> district is asking for a ton of money to build
> the most abstract design of a school you have ever seen.

For some unknown reasons, it seems public buildings enter the land of
"wants" combined with less "needs". I fought the same thing here when our
new library went in last year. We could have built a pre-engineered metal
building with decent asthetics that served every function a library would
need @ about 70% of the cost of the stick frame. But.........
Overall it's functional & pretty but why did we need 16' ceilings with a
side wall full of glass that overlooks the road and houses below? (Hardly a
view so to speak) For what was spent on stick frame vs pre-engineered, we
could have added a full walkout basement & doubled the square footage.

>We are a small
> community and this could bankrupt the town. However, we do need more
> space. I'm looking for a place to find out what the rules in school
> construction might be.

Here's where things tend to get screwy. The laws governing 'public
buildings', and the requirements therein, impose some really stupid
standards that are, to me anyway, designed to screw the public. Our library
had to have a 'special sign' made that cost about 6 times what it
should/could have. I've forgotten what it was now but it sure PMO'd at the
time. It was something in the nature of $700 vs about $100. The $100 being
what any normal business could have produced the sign for.

>One big "for instance" would be,,,, Can a school
> be built from the same kind of steel truss buildings that those huge
> airplane hangers are constructed from? These hangers seem to stay
> standing. Also I see quite a few other building being built and looking
> rather good from these steel truss buildings.

As long as the building meets codes, laws and approvals, why not? Most any
pre-engineered metal building can be made to work with any codes.


>Has anyone been involved in this kind of construction?
> Lou

Just as a matter of curiosity, why don't you contact a metal building mfg.
like Butler, Garco, Varco Pruden and get a 'rough cost' on square footage
for a shell in your area. It would be a start to go back the board with.
Then write an editorial letter to your local paper & voice your concerns.
Flyers around town from your computer asking for a public meeting with other
local residents to address relevant issues pertaining to costs. Talk
to/invite your county/state officials. In general, you need to raise enough
hell to get heard. But never take an adversarial attitude, keep it STRICTLY
business and have the answers before the questions are raised.


Dan



Posted by Lou on January 24, 2007, 7:53 am

> > LouJust as a matter of curiosity, why don't you contact a
metal building mfg.
> like Butler, Garco, Varco Pruden and get a 'rough cost' on square footage
> for a shell in your area. It would be a start to go back the board with.
> Then write an editorial letter to your local paper & voice your concerns.
> Flyers around town from your computer asking for a public meeting with other
> local residents to address relevant issues pertaining to costs. Talk
> to/invite your county/state officials. In general, you need to raise enough
> hell to get heard. But never take an adversarial attitude, keep it STRICTLY
> business and have the answers before the questions are raised.
>
> Dan


Dan,
The flyers are coming, I do have a rough sq. ft. for the metal
buildings, I've designed a layout for a new school using this
system along with future expansion for future use rather than building
new buildings. Now I'm working on estimating cost to build the schools.
You see I've been a commercial carpenter for the last 25 years and have
seen this practice of deep tax payer pockets in use. Believe it or not,
the hard part is getting people together in meeting to discuss such
things. I have found the best place to speak is at the school board
meetings when the public actually shows up.
Lou


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