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Business Management question for any contractors <moo 11-29-2006
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Posted by on November 29, 2006, 3:04 am
Im a sole proprietor right now which is slightly insane
i am insured for almost a million and I have only been taking jobs
with people I know since i started my own business about 2 years ago and
left employment of someone else's company

Basically I moved and I never really got into the business side as an
employee.

I do have contracts that state no warranty unless an extended warranty is
paid for and a limitation of liability clause (not more then Labor paid to
date for any reason).

So I am thinking about going LLC because its the next step up

Although I have been reading that in this state they can still come after
personal assets even if its not gross negligence. basically the judge
decides if you are personally liable in the case of a small company. I am
guessing they probably always side against the owner.

After talking to one guy i met that is in about the same situation as me I
figure its going to cost me at least another $1k a year if i can do most of
it myself and as he suggested maybe more like $4K for corp fees and legal
and tax prep, business registration every year.

considering I am a 1 person business and this can all be worth nothing if a
judge finds I am personally liable anyway its ticking me off a bit but
anyway

Do any of you guys do your taxes yourself?
I do my own by hand right now and its not bad.. no turbo tax...
Do you have any tips to lower my costs for accounting and record keeping or
anything???

im more or less running on a shoestring just making it right now and I dont
want to get screwed because someone thinks the cabinet i installed is a
ladder to change a light bulb.

I would rather not LLC even but I guess I probably have to.



Posted by marson on November 29, 2006, 8:11 am

moo@anonamoo.com wrote:
> Im a sole proprietor right now which is slightly insane
> i am insured for almost a million and I have only been taking jobs
> with people I know since i started my own business about 2 years ago and
> left employment of someone else's company
>
> Basically I moved and I never really got into the business side as an
> employee.
>
> I do have contracts that state no warranty unless an extended warranty is
> paid for and a limitation of liability clause (not more then Labor paid to
> date for any reason).
>
> So I am thinking about going LLC because its the next step up
>
> Although I have been reading that in this state they can still come after
> personal assets even if its not gross negligence. basically the judge
> decides if you are personally liable in the case of a small company. I am
> guessing they probably always side against the owner.
>
> After talking to one guy i met that is in about the same situation as me I
> figure its going to cost me at least another $1k a year if i can do most of
> it myself and as he suggested maybe more like $4K for corp fees and legal
> and tax prep, business registration every year.
>
> considering I am a 1 person business and this can all be worth nothing if a
> judge finds I am personally liable anyway its ticking me off a bit but
> anyway
>
> Do any of you guys do your taxes yourself?
> I do my own by hand right now and its not bad.. no turbo tax...
> Do you have any tips to lower my costs for accounting and record keeping or
> anything???
>
> im more or less running on a shoestring just making it right now and I dont
> want to get screwed because someone thinks the cabinet i installed is a
> ladder to change a light bulb.
>
> I would rather not LLC even but I guess I probably have to.

My partner and I formed an S corp and I thought it was well worth it.
The initial setup fee was under 500 bucks. I did my own taxes the
first year, but in later years I gave them to an accountant. I had
quickbooks, so I would just bring him a disc and he would go from
there. Was not a big expense, something like 200 or so.

We wound up in a dispute with a homeowner which landed in arbitration.
It was a great comfort being incorporated. a the legal professionals
treated the corporation with respect. I would never run a sole prop.
again. The liability in construction is just too great.

It's true that a judge can "pierce the corporate veil". I think that
happens when people form corps and then pull all sorts of shenanigans
because their assets are protected. If you run your corp on the up and
up (definitely keep seperate bank accounts) I think you are pretty safe.


Posted by Bob Morrison on November 29, 2006, 11:05 am
In a previous post marson wrote...
> It's true that a judge can "pierce the corporate veil". I think that
> happens when people form corps and then pull all sorts of shenanigans
> because their assets are protected. If you run your corp on the up and
> up (definitely keep seperate bank accounts) I think you are pretty safe.
>

Excellent advice. Make sure to keep your personal finances completely
separate from the business accounts.

Pay yourself wages or a salary on a regular basis. Treat yourself like an
employee of the company. Give yourself a reasonable, but not too high
wage (or salary). Any profit at the end of the year, take it out in
"dividends" because you don't have to pay Social Security or Employment
taxes on that money. BTW, throughout the year you can also take "draws"
against expected profits as long as you accurately account for them.

--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
Structural & Civil Engineering
Poulsbo WA
bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com

Posted by Matt Barrow on July 24, 2007, 11:33 am

> In a previous post marson wrote...
>> It's true that a judge can "pierce the corporate veil". I think that
>> happens when people form corps and then pull all sorts of shenanigans
>> because their assets are protected. If you run your corp on the up and
>> up (definitely keep seperate bank accounts) I think you are pretty safe.
>>
>
> Excellent advice. Make sure to keep your personal finances completely
> separate from the business accounts.
>
> Pay yourself wages or a salary on a regular basis. Treat yourself like an
> employee of the company. Give yourself a reasonable, but not too high
> wage (or salary). Any profit at the end of the year, take it out in
> "dividends" because you don't have to pay Social Security or Employment
> taxes on that money. BTW, throughout the year you can also take "draws"
> against expected profits as long as you accurately account for them.
>

You can probably take them as [quarterly] dividends, enjoying the same
factors as Bob mentioned above.

Also, if you are away from your home office for extensive periods, you can
pay yourself a "per-diem", which is also non-taxable. This, though, has a
few critical restrictions, so find a CPA that goes beyond the superficial in
knowing the more obscure parts of the tax codes.




Posted by Matt Barrow on November 29, 2006, 9:24 am

> Im a sole proprietor right now which is slightly insane
> i am insured for almost a million and I have only been taking jobs
> with people I know since i started my own business about 2 years ago and
> left employment of someone else's company
>
> Basically I moved and I never really got into the business side as an
> employee.
>
> I do have contracts that state no warranty unless an extended warranty is
> paid for and a limitation of liability clause (not more then Labor paid to
> date for any reason).
>
> So I am thinking about going LLC because its the next step up

Going LLC is nearly ALWAYS the way to go. The gist of it being that your
liability is _Limited_, so, short of fraud or some such, your personal
assets are separate and distinct from your business assets, and thus
protected.

Matt



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