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Can general contractor raise price after house is finished? HappyHumanist 06-23-2007
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Posted by RicodJour on June 23, 2007, 7:56 pm
On Jun 23, 7:23 pm, HappyHuman...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I agree, Pat. That's what I was planning on doing. I'm giving him a
> spreadsheet that starts with the amount we agreed upon and adds on
> certain changes that we agreed to and their respective costs, like
> moving a few walls--nothing major. The final number will be
> presented. To receive that amount, he has to give me a new final bill
> for that amount. And before he even does that, he has to finish the
> dozen or so outstanding tasks. I'm giving him 30 days to finish the
> outstanding tasks (minor issues that could take one day with a crew of
> 2 guys). If he does not finish the tasks in 30 days, I will hire
> other contractors and subtract their bills from the amount due. And
> again, that final amount due has to be agreed on explicitly with a new
> final bill. If he doesn't agree, then he doesn't get anything, and
> he'll have to sue for the entire $50K-$70K, at which time I will go
> after him for all the other shortcomings in quality and workmanship.
>
> This is war. I'm not going to get screwed over by another
> contractor. I've had it. They all play this game. The give a price,
> and then, as soon as you accept the price, they go to work on finding
> reasons to raise it. I have to fight this on principal. I'm also
> going to tell everyone who will listen to stay away from these jokers.
>
> Thanks for your advice.
>
> - Unhappy

Does anyone remember this joker asking how _not_ to pay a drywall
contractor from a thread some months ago?
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.building.construction/browse_thread/thread/e74cca800f7b96a4/dcb470f3b94cf1e6
If I were the suspicious sort, I'd think there was a pattern of
blaming other people for their own failings.

To the OP:
You don't know how to protect yourself, you don't know that you need
to put everything in writing, you don't know how to deal with people
in a straightforward manner - what makes you think you know right from
wrong and that you won't be laughed out of court?

Go ahead piss all over you own shoes and make yourself miserable.
You'll spend more money and a hell of a lot of time to "prove" you're
never wrong. Only one problem - you're probably wrong. Don't take my
word for it. Listen to the lawyer that will take your case - they
always love people that are standing on principle...as long as they
pay the lawyer's bills on time.

Oh my. I just thought of something. You're not so entirely deluded
that you think a lawyer won't require you to pay as you go, but will
take only 1/3 of your "winnings", are you?

R


Posted by Pat on June 23, 2007, 9:22 pm
> On Jun 23, 7:23 pm, HappyHuman...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > I agree, Pat. That's what I was planning on doing. I'm giving him a
> > spreadsheet that starts with the amount we agreed upon and adds on
> > certain changes that we agreed to and their respective costs, like
> > moving a few walls--nothing major. The final number will be
> > presented. To receive that amount, he has to give me a new final bill
> > for that amount. And before he even does that, he has to finish the
> > dozen or so outstanding tasks. I'm giving him 30 days to finish the
> > outstanding tasks (minor issues that could take one day with a crew of
> > 2 guys). If he does not finish the tasks in 30 days, I will hire
> > other contractors and subtract their bills from the amount due. And
> > again, that final amount due has to be agreed on explicitly with a new
> > final bill. If he doesn't agree, then he doesn't get anything, and
> > he'll have to sue for the entire $50K-$70K, at which time I will go
> > after him for all the other shortcomings in quality and workmanship.
>
> > This is war. I'm not going to get screwed over by another
> > contractor. I've had it. They all play this game. The give a price,
> > and then, as soon as you accept the price, they go to work on finding
> > reasons to raise it. I have to fight this on principal. I'm also
> > going to tell everyone who will listen to stay away from these jokers.
>
> > Thanks for your advice.
>
> > - Unhappy
>
> Does anyone remember this joker asking how _not_ to pay a drywall
> contractor from a thread some months
ago?http://groups.google.com/group/alt.building.construction/browse_threa...
> If I were the suspicious sort, I'd think there was a pattern of
> blaming other people for their own failings.
>
> To the OP:
> You don't know how to protect yourself, you don't know that you need
> to put everything in writing, you don't know how to deal with people
> in a straightforward manner - what makes you think you know right from
> wrong and that you won't be laughed out of court?
>
> Go ahead piss all over you own shoes and make yourself miserable.
> You'll spend more money and a hell of a lot of time to "prove" you're
> never wrong. Only one problem - you're probably wrong. Don't take my
> word for it. Listen to the lawyer that will take your case - they
> always love people that are standing on principle...as long as they
> pay the lawyer's bills on time.
>
> Oh my. I just thought of something. You're not so entirely deluded
> that you think a lawyer won't require you to pay as you go, but will
> take only 1/3 of your "winnings", are you?
>
> R

Don't worry, he/she won't like the lawyer either, so he/she wont want
to pay him/her either.


Posted by PeterD on June 23, 2007, 8:00 pm
On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 15:20:31 -0700, HappyHumanist@yahoo.com wrote:

>We do not have a contract, except an oral contract that the accepted
>bid would not change unless we made changes, and then only the costs
>related to the change would be added to the bid.

Wow, bad move... I take back all I said before. See a lawyer, NOW.


Posted by Dave on June 24, 2007, 12:32 am
All boils down to what you signed, not what the contractor or you say or
think.
Dave

> Our house (in Wisconsin) is finished. According to the bid we
> accepted, we owe one final payment of $60,000 ($53,000 plus $7,000 to
> account for change requests during the construction process) to our
> general contractor. Now, right at the end, he suddenly says we owe
> him $73,000. He says if we don't pay it, he's going to sue us. Can
> he doe this to us? Here are his reasons:
>
> 1. His estimates were inaccurate, and some of his sources for
> material and labor ended up charging him more than he expected.
>
> 2. We bothered him with a lot of changes and supervision.
>
> 3. Our house is worth a lot more than we're paying him.
>
> 4. The house too him longer to build than he expected, and so he had
> to pay a lot more for labor than he expected.
>
> Here are my answers to him on each of the four issues:
>
> 1. Regarding his costs exceeding his estimates... We had an oral
> agreement in the beginning that once we agreed on a project and
> accepted his bid that the bid would not change--up or down. If we
> made changes (we did make minor changes), we would be responsible for
> our changes. If market prices on materials were to fall, we agreed
> that he would enjoy the savings, but if prices went up, he would
> suffer the extra charges. He called this "locking in," and that is
> one of the main reasons we went with this contractor. On the detailed
> written bid he provided us, and which we subsequently accepted, he
> even wrote his "lock in" promise at the bottom--a few sentences.
> Other than these written documents and or oral contract, we have no
> official contract with him.
>
> 2. Regarding his claim that we bothered him with changes and
> supervision... He never once discouraged this or said that there
> would be extra charges, other than the cost of the actual changes,
> which we are agreeing to pay--$7,000 for specific changes bringing the
> total due up to $60,000. But he wants $73,000! As for his claim that
> we bothered him with a lot of supervision and faxed notes... He never
> discouraged this, and the only reason for the close supervision and
> notes was because his crew made a *LOT* of mistakes that had to be
> corrected. The work was very substandard. All of this is
> documented. I think our supervision and notes actually helped them
> get through the job and finish it the way we intended it to be
> finished. They were very unprofessional.
>
> 3. Regarding his claim that our house is worth a lot so we should pay
> a lot... Why should we be penalized because we came up with a great
> design and made wise choices for materials and features? He offered
> us a bid in the beginning, and we accepted. Now, because the house is
> very attractive (mostly because of the land and neighborhood), why
> should he be entitled to more money? His complaint is that he didn't
> charge enough initially, and now he's going to lose at least $30,0000,
> and that we should have to pay for his losses because our house only
> cost us $290,000 and it's worth about $450,000. First of all, I think
> it's worth $350,000 at the most, and even if it was worth $450,000,
> that would be like a mechanic complaining because he sold us an engine
> for $5,000 and we put it in a car we bought for $7,000, and now that
> car is now worth $20,000--too bad, right?
>
> 4. Regarding his claim that the house took longer to build than
> expected... Isn't that his fault? The reason it took longer is
> because his crew are slow, lazy, and inept. They made a lot of
> mistakes that they had to fix. Likewise, everything based on time
> cost about double--the dumpster, the crane, etc. In fact, this
> actually cost us money, because we paid four months longer than
> expected on our construction loan without being able to live in the
> house--shouldn't we be entitled for some compensation for that?
>
> This is all causing us a lot of stress, and it sounds like it's going
> to cost us a lot of legal fees now, too. I feel violated. What can
> we do? Please advise. Any helpful information would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Unhappy
>



Posted by Tony on June 24, 2007, 7:05 am

> All boils down to what you signed, not what the contractor or you say or
> think.
> Dave

Hello
In a court the contractor would be entitled to fair market value for his
services.
In construction 13,000 is not a LOT of money, just depends on the work I
guess.

I'd pay the extra 13, not say, aha! you didn't put it in writing.

if contractor is getting fair market value, then 13,000 will come in quick
(he should have no problem showing the court 13,000 $'s of extra work)
it could run into 10's of extra 1,000's fast.

-



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