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Posted by Bobk207 on October 23, 2007, 2:30 am
>
>
> > >Oh, I don't really have one, although one can imagine a counter argument.
>
> > If you can imagine one....let's have it. Dust inhibits adhesion.
>
> Absolutely, dust inhibits adhesion. But then the question is which
> procedure, brushing or blowing, yields a dust pattern that has the
> lower impact on adhesion. You mentioned brushing last to dislodge any
> loose dust on the sides, where it will fall to the bottom.
>
> Arguments in favor of blowing last could be (1) blowing will remove
> any loose dust at the bottom and won't significantly redeposit it on
> the sides or (2) brushing may yield fine dust that is suspended in the
> air, and blowing is the only way to remove this fine dust.
>
> Anyway, I don't really know anything about this. But Simpson
> recommends blowing last, and I see someone else said that Hilti's
> written instructions say the same thing. I assume the only way to
> resolve the question would be to do tests. Or perhaps it is most
> important to just use whatever procedure was used when the published
> strength data was developed.
>
> Cheers, Wayne
>>>>I assume the only way to
resolve the question would be to do tests.<<<
BTDT I'll stick with my current procedure, it works
I'd like to see a link to the Hilti linfo,.
I'm not going research or search for more info about something I
believe to be a settled issue.
>>But then the question is which procedure, brushing or blowing, yields a dust
pattern that has the lower impact on adhesion.<<<
Brushing.........
that's why when painting, blowing or vacuuming is followed with a
"duster"...a foxtail, a rag or even better a tack cloth.
cheers
Bob
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Posted by Wayne Whitney on October 23, 2007, 6:00 pm
> I'd like to see a link to the Hilti linfo,.
For the HIT RE 500 epoxy (to pick a random one, I'm not familiar with
their products), see page 15 of this file:
<http://www.us.hilti.com/data/techlib/docs/product%20technical%20guide%202001/anchoring%20systems/4.2.6%20HIT%20RE%20500%20Epoxy%20Adhesive%20Anchor%20(159-175)r009.pdf>
> I'm not going research or search for more info about something I
> believe to be a settled issue.
I'm not trying to dispute your statements, I was just surprised to see
at the discrepancy between your theory (which makes sense) and the
manufacturer's instructions. It leaves me a little confused.
Cheers, Wayne
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Posted by Bobk207 on October 26, 2007, 1:51 am
>
> > I'd like to see a link to the Hilti linfo,.
>
> For the HIT RE 500 epoxy (to pick a random one, I'm not familiar with
> their products), see page 15 of this file:
>
> <http://www.us.hilti.com/data/techlib/docs/product%20technical%20guide...>
>
> > I'm not going research or search for more info about something I
> > believe to be a settled issue.
>
> I'm not trying to dispute your statements, I was just surprised to see
> at the discrepancy between your theory (which makes sense) and the
> manufacturer's instructions. It leaves me a little confused.
>
> Cheers, Wayne
Wayne-
its not my theory, its what the Hilti development engineer taught me
in 1997
looks like they have chosen to omit the final brush set and now
suggest
brush, blow
oh well,
I will still
brush, blow, brush
until someone shows me data that the final brushing is detrimental to
anchor performance.
cheers
Bob
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Posted by Tim Mulvey on October 22, 2007, 6:30 am
>>
>> > the correct sequence is: blow brush blow brush
>> > the last thing to go in the hole (before the epoxy) must be the brush.
>> > if you blow last, it coats the hole with dust & weakens the epoxy bond
>>
>> Interesting, Bob. Simpson's instructions for their SET epoxy say to
>> "blow brush blow". Do you think that they have it wrong?
>>
>> <http://www.simpsonanchors.com/catalog/adhesives/adhesive_anchoring_in...>
>>
>> Cheers, Wayne
>
> My experience plus my interaction with home office Hilti
> engineers ....they said brush, blow, brush
>
> They explained that the "final brush" drops the drops the dust off
> the hole wall.
>
> I added the extra blow / vacuum on the front end but kept the Hilti
> "finish with brush"
>
> Again my experience based on drilling, cleaning, bonding & testing
> anchors in concrete in the lab.
>
> flour (dust) is used as a release agent when working with dough
>
> paint doesn't stick to dust; I use a brush & a tack cloth when
> prepping for paint
>
> YMMV.....draw your own conclusions
>
> counter argument / theory? :)
>
> cheers
> Bob
>
Hilti says brush,blow for their epoxy systems. End it by brushing and the
hole won't be clean enough. You don't need to brush at all, only blow if you
use the HVA capsules.
Tim
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Posted by Bobk207 on October 26, 2007, 1:46 am
>
>
>
>
>
> >> > the correct sequence is: blow brush blow brush
> >> > the last thing to go in the hole (before the epoxy) must be the brush.
> >> > if you blow last, it coats the hole with dust & weakens the epoxy bond
>
> >> Interesting, Bob. Simpson's instructions for their SET epoxy say to
> >> "blow brush blow". Do you think that they have it wrong?
>
> >> <http://www.simpsonanchors.com/catalog/adhesives/adhesive_anchoring_in...>
>
> >> Cheers, Wayne
>
> > My experience plus my interaction with home office Hilti
> > engineers ....they said brush, blow, brush
>
> > They explained that the "final brush" drops the drops the dust off
> > the hole wall.
>
> > I added the extra blow / vacuum on the front end but kept the Hilti
> > "finish with brush"
>
> > Again my experience based on drilling, cleaning, bonding & testing
> > anchors in concrete in the lab.
>
> > flour (dust) is used as a release agent when working with dough
>
> > paint doesn't stick to dust; I use a brush & a tack cloth when
> > prepping for paint
>
> > YMMV.....draw your own conclusions
>
> > counter argument / theory? :)
>
> > cheers
> > Bob
>
> Hilti says brush,blow for their epoxy systems. End it by brushing and the
> hole won't be clean enough. You don't need to brush at all, only blow if you
> use the HVA capsules.
>
> Tim
That's not what the Hilti factory new adhesive development engineer
told me in 1997.
brush, blow, brush
has got to leave a more dust free surface than
brush, blow
maybe they did more testing but when I was doing testing for them it
was
brush, blow, brush
and that's what I've done (& still do) and the anchors test out just
fine.
cheers
Bob
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