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Posted by jamesgangnc on July 28, 2009, 12:58 pm
> I am in agreemant and rather not argue.
> When we get a plan that says the pier footing to be 18" deep, and the
> concrete to be at least 8" and the hole to be 24" that is what we follow.
> Also in the mix, the wood,(be it pressure treated or #1 rdwd sill grade) =
is
> to be "above grade"....thus the concrete will have to fill the entire hol=
e.
> I really do not understand the issue.
> I have pulled out of the ground many a "pressure treated" wood post and
> boards that were in earth contact and that had wrotted.
> For fence post we use a "P" gravel and not embed in concrete.
> I beleive the concrete holds the moisture more and many post have snapped=
at
> the concrete line.......
> anyway, burying wood be it pressure treated or....whatever, is asking for
> future repair.
> john"Grasshopper" <NONE> wrote in message
> >> "Grasshopper" <NONE> wrote in message
m...
> >>>>> I'm planning a deck for my new house. =A0I think I've got pretty mu=
ch
> >>>>> everything figured out, but I'm concerned about one thing. =A0My co=
unty
> >>>>> requires 18" round, 24" deep footings with 8" of concrete. =A0If I =
only
> >>>>> use 8" of concrete, the post bases will be 16" down in an 18" hole.
> >>>>> There's no room to swing a hammer down there. =A0How can I attach m=
y
> >>>>> (6x6) posts to the post bases?
> >>>>> I have a couple ideas. =A0Obviously, I could just pour enough concr=
ete
> >>>>> to raise the post bases up to the surface. =A0That's a LOT of concr=
ete
> >>>>> to mix by hand, but it's not impossible. =A0Another possibility is =
to
> >>>>> use screws instead of nails with a 90 degree drill attachment.
> >>>>> Anybody have a better idea? =A0I'd really appreciate it.
> >>>>> Thanks in advance,
> >>>>> Bill
> >>>> I'm guessing you're in the southern part of the states. We have a
> >>>> frostline of 42", in the part of the Midwest I'm in.
> >>>> I have no idea where the people which said the lumber has to be abov=
e
> >>>> ground, get their information. With the properly treated lumber such=
as
> >>>> ACQ 0.40 retention, it is made for ground contact. Here's a couple
> >>>> links, and the net is full of ground contact lumber. Pole barns are
> >>>> commonly built this way, along with decks.
> >>>>http://www.eswoodtreatment.com/photogallery.html
> >>> Look at the bottom photo where you can actually see the supporting 4X=
4s
> >>> and the soil in its vicinity. =A0You will see that the treated lumber=
is
> >>> not in the soil. =A0Its embedded in concrete below the soil line. =A0=
None of
> >>> it is actually contacting soil. =A0At least, not for now. =A0That is =
common.
> >>> The smart, but most laborious way, is to build the piers entirely of
> >>> concrete. =A0The piers supporting the beams that hold the deck. =A0Al=
l
> >>> treated lumber eventually rots.
> >>>>http://www.easybuildings.com/
> >>> No one said the building method was undoable. =A0Its not long term
> >>> oriented though. =A0 Common when bulding deck attachments to a home.
> >>>> You don't need a strong tie attachment at all, unless this was
> >>>> specified by the inspector. I would ask the inspector to clarify the
> >>>> 18" round. That would take one mighty big auger bit.
> >>> My pier and beam home sits on 24" round footings. =A0Its in central T=
X.
> >>> They used the machine normally used for making holes for utility pole=
s
> >>> to drill/cut it out. =A0They flared the bottom of each hole manually.
> >>> 18" round =A0footings are common for structures that don't bear as mu=
ch
> >>> weight.
> >> I'm sure the inspector said 18", because it's common to go 3x the lumb=
er
> >> size. Since the OP is using 6x6, which is really 5-1/2", the footer fo=
r
> >> 8" of concrete should be 16.5".
> >> I have a deck which is 22 yr old, I've seen how long they can last.
> >> Exactly what have you seen over the years, which last?
> >> I read these forums, and people always throw out this solution or this
> >> solution, and have no idea how long something lasts.
> >> Here's a code from MD, which sounds similiar to the OP situation. MD h=
as
> >> a 20" frostline, the OP has a 24". We have a 42", and can build like M=
D
> >> code.http://www.co.saint-marys.md.us/lugm/docs/CAG4.pdf
> >> Now, if you want to argue with someone, I suggest contacting all the
> >> states which allow _properly_ treated wood, _meant_ for ground contact=
,
> >> and tell them they're wrong.
> >> You're arguing with the wrong person.
> > Again, an 18" round hole is common for footings that support less weigh=
t
> > bearing. =A0Personally, I've seen treated lumber deck supports rot in t=
he
> > ground and eventually, the whole deck fall of the house as result. =A0T=
hat's
> > why I have so much concern in this specific case that the OP is talking
> > about.
> > Even the super-duper treated lumber used for pier supports eventually
> > rots. They're removed and replaced on a regular basis by DOD contractor=
s
> > at Navy piers.
> > Regarding contacting states that allow such ground contact lumber, they
> > are not looking at long term life.
> > Water contact, and the organisms in that water are what causes wood to =
rot
> > including treated lumber. =A0If that can be avoided or appreciably redu=
ced,
> > treated lumber can be used. =A0Concrete encased treated lumber has a pr=
oblem
> > though. =A0Concrete is porous. =A0Commonly observed when having to repl=
ace
> > treated wooden fence posts encased in concrete below the soil line.
> > I am not arguing. =A0I am stating facts and my observations. =A0I'm not=
making
> > an emmotional issue as you imply by "arguing".
> > --
> > Dave- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
Last time I put in some 6x6 posts I also painted the sides where they
were in contact with the ground with some asphalt paint. Another
thing to consider if you are filling the holes all the way up with
concrete and putting the post on top is that you lose a lot of side to
side strength. Make sure to brace the 6x6's with some diagonal 4x4s
up to the deck frame.
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> When we get a plan that says the pier footing to be 18" deep, and the
> concrete to be at least 8" and the hole to be 24" that is what we follow.
> Also in the mix, the wood,(be it pressure treated or #1 rdwd sill grade) =