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Electric question - hot neutral Tony 09-18-2007
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Posted by Tony on September 18, 2007, 8:55 pm
I have an overhead light fixture that was failing intermittantly.
I opened the J box of the on/off wall switch controlling that overhead
fixture .
I have a twisted bundle of 4 white wires stuffed into a wire nut.
The white neutral for the overhead light had loosened from the group.
When I tried to reattach it properly to the other three twisted
together, tiny sparks flew.
One of the neutral wires is hot.
I isolated and disconnected this neutral, and reconnected the 3 other
neutral feeds.
Everything upline from there now works.


I get a reading of 120v when I attach a voltmeter to the hot white
wire and ground it to the box.
When I short the wire against the metal box, BIG sparks fly.

I don't want to connect it to the other white wires again

The disconnected wire is to the floor outlets in one room.

Prior to my disconnecting this wire the floor outlets worked.
(Last time someone worked on electric in this room was over 7 years
ago)

What would cause this wire to be hot, yet still appear to function?
If I had an incorrectly polarized outlet, wouldn't it short out
against the ground?


Am I missing something Any ideas?

Thanks,

Tony D

Posted by DanG on September 18, 2007, 9:11 pm
One of the uses on that circuit has the wires on the wrong screws.
Color on brass, white on silver.

If they are all receptacles, get one of these to check polarity
and ground:
<http://www.stoveparts.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=stoveparts&Product_Code=TOL-01034>

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)
dgriff237@7cox.net



>I have an overhead light fixture that was failing intermittantly.
> I opened the J box of the on/off wall switch controlling that
> overhead
> fixture .
> I have a twisted bundle of 4 white wires stuffed into a wire
> nut.
> The white neutral for the overhead light had loosened from the
> group.
> When I tried to reattach it properly to the other three twisted
> together, tiny sparks flew.
> One of the neutral wires is hot.
> I isolated and disconnected this neutral, and reconnected the 3
> other
> neutral feeds.
> Everything upline from there now works.
>
>
> I get a reading of 120v when I attach a voltmeter to the hot
> white
> wire and ground it to the box.
> When I short the wire against the metal box, BIG sparks fly.
>
> I don't want to connect it to the other white wires again
>
> The disconnected wire is to the floor outlets in one room.
>
> Prior to my disconnecting this wire the floor outlets worked.
> (Last time someone worked on electric in this room was over 7
> years
> ago)
>
> What would cause this wire to be hot, yet still appear to
> function?
> If I had an incorrectly polarized outlet, wouldn't it short out
> against the ground?
>
>
> Am I missing something Any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tony D



Posted by Charles on September 18, 2007, 9:17 pm
Tony wrote:
> I have an overhead light fixture that was failing intermittantly.
> I opened the J box of the on/off wall switch controlling that overhead
> fixture .
> I have a twisted bundle of 4 white wires stuffed into a wire nut.
> The white neutral for the overhead light had loosened from the group.
> When I tried to reattach it properly to the other three twisted
> together, tiny sparks flew.
> One of the neutral wires is hot.
> I isolated and disconnected this neutral, and reconnected the 3 other
> neutral feeds.

Is there any voltage between the white neutral wires and the green (or bare)
ground wiring? There should be none. If there is, investigate that first.
Your neutral is not attached to the safety ground.

> I get a reading of 120v when I attach a voltmeter to the hot white
> wire and ground it to the box.
> The disconnected wire is to the floor outlets in one room.

Verify that the outlets don't work now that they are disconnected. If they
still work, you have another problem.

> What would cause this wire to be hot, yet still appear to function?

Perhaps some one confused black and white. Have you disconnected the black
wire going to those floor outlets?

Draw the existing wiring diagram. A picture may help you sort it out.

--
Chuck



Posted by Dave on September 19, 2007, 12:44 am
>I have an overhead light fixture that was failing intermittantly.
> I opened the J box of the on/off wall switch controlling that overhead
> fixture .
> I have a twisted bundle of 4 white wires stuffed into a wire nut.
> The white neutral for the overhead light had loosened from the group.
> When I tried to reattach it properly to the other three twisted
> together, tiny sparks flew.
> One of the neutral wires is hot.
> I isolated and disconnected this neutral, and reconnected the 3 other
> neutral feeds.
> Everything upline from there now works.
>
>
> I get a reading of 120v when I attach a voltmeter to the hot white
> wire and ground it to the box.
> When I short the wire against the metal box, BIG sparks fly.
>
> I don't want to connect it to the other white wires again
>
> The disconnected wire is to the floor outlets in one room.
>
> Prior to my disconnecting this wire the floor outlets worked.
> (Last time someone worked on electric in this room was over 7 years
> ago)
>
> What would cause this wire to be hot, yet still appear to function?
> If I had an incorrectly polarized outlet, wouldn't it short out
> against the ground?
>
>
> Am I missing something Any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tony D

The white wire is a return path for hot to earth ground. If something on
one of those outlets downstairs is actively used, all what you see it
normal. Unplug all appliances et all downstairs outlets, try it again.
Dave



Posted by Tony on September 19, 2007, 3:52 am
Thanks for the replies.
Dave seems to have hit on the proper solution for my particular
problem.
I thought I had unpugged or shut off everything prior to my original
tests. I Missed a computer monitor and a clock.
With thhem removed - No more voltage. no more sparks.
I'll rewire it all in daylight tomorrow.

Thanks all.

Tony
===========
>>
>> What would cause this wire to be hot, yet still appear to function?
>> If I had an incorrectly polarized outlet, wouldn't it short out
>> against the ground?
>>
>>
>> Am I missing something Any ideas?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Tony D
>
>The white wire is a return path for hot to earth ground. If something on
>one of those outlets downstairs is actively used, all what you see it
>normal. Unplug all appliances et all downstairs outlets, try it again.
>Dave
>

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