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Electric question - hot neutral

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Electric question - hot neutral Tony 09-18-2007
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Posted by Dave on September 19, 2007, 9:55 pm
Glad you found the "culprits". Some stuff may have a standby condition,
still drawing power. Best to physically disconnect all. Just hook the
neutral back to the way it was.
Dave
Retired USN Chief Fire Controlman
> Thanks for the replies.
> Dave seems to have hit on the proper solution for my particular
> problem.
> I thought I had unpugged or shut off everything prior to my original
> tests. I Missed a computer monitor and a clock.
> With thhem removed - No more voltage. no more sparks.
> I'll rewire it all in daylight tomorrow.
>
> Thanks all.
>
> Tony
> ===========
>>>
>>> What would cause this wire to be hot, yet still appear to function?
>>> If I had an incorrectly polarized outlet, wouldn't it short out
>>> against the ground?
>>>
>>>
>>> Am I missing something Any ideas?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Tony D
>>
>>The white wire is a return path for hot to earth ground. If something on
>>one of those outlets downstairs is actively used, all what you see it
>>normal. Unplug all appliances et all downstairs outlets, try it again.
>>Dave
>>



Posted by Wayne Whitney on September 19, 2007, 4:08 pm

> The white wire is a return path for hot to earth ground. If
> something on one of those outlets downstairs is actively used, all
> what you see it normal. Unplug all appliances et all downstairs
> outlets, try it again.

Why would he see 120V between the neutral and ground then?

Wayne

Posted by Robert Allison on September 19, 2007, 5:19 pm
Wayne Whitney wrote:
>
>
>>The white wire is a return path for hot to earth ground. If
>>something on one of those outlets downstairs is actively used, all
>>what you see it normal. Unplug all appliances et all downstairs
>>outlets, try it again.
>
>
> Why would he see 120V between the neutral and ground then?
>
> Wayne

Because it is the return path for the circuit, the neutral is,
in essence, the hot. So just like finding current between
your black wire and the ground, you find current between the
neutral and the ground.

Unplug the device that is providing the circuit continuity and
the phenomenae goes away.

--
Robert Allison        
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX

Posted by Wayne Whitney on September 19, 2007, 5:39 pm

> Because it is the return path for the circuit, the neutral is, in
> essence, the hot. So just like finding current between your black
> wire and the ground, you find current between the neutral and the
> ground.

[Sorry if this is a duplicate.]

Sure, there will be current on the neutral, equal to the current on
the hot for a 120V circuit. But the load will cause a voltage drop of
almost 120V, so while the hot will be 120V from ground, the neutral
should only be millivolts above ground. I think that if the OP truly
measured 120V between a neutral and a ground, just having a device
plugged in downstream doesn't explain that.

Maybe what was happening was that with the downstream neutral
disconnected (no circuit), the voltmeter was giving a phantom 120V
reading due to the induced current from the parallel hot conductor.
As a separate matter, touching the downstream neutral to the grounded
box, while a downstream load was plugged in, completed the circuit for
that load, causing the spark.

Cheers, Wayne

Posted by Dave on September 19, 2007, 10:18 pm
>
>> Because it is the return path for the circuit, the neutral is, in
>> essence, the hot. So just like finding current between your black
>> wire and the ground, you find current between the neutral and the
>> ground.
>
> [Sorry if this is a duplicate.]
>
> Sure, there will be current on the neutral, equal to the current on
> the hot for a 120V circuit. But the load will cause a voltage drop of
> almost 120V, so while the hot will be 120V from ground, the neutral
> should only be millivolts above ground. I think that if the OP truly
> measured 120V between a neutral and a ground, just having a device
> plugged in downstream doesn't explain that.
>
> Maybe what was happening was that with the downstream neutral
> disconnected (no circuit), the voltmeter was giving a phantom 120V
> reading due to the induced current from the parallel hot conductor.
> As a separate matter, touching the downstream neutral to the grounded
> box, while a downstream load was plugged in, completed the circuit for
> that load, causing the spark.
>
> Cheers, Wayne

No.

Any residential circuit on which has power drawn from the hot needs a
neutral. The neutral carries the current to earth ground. The
difference/potential in those conditions is the neutral will be at a
potential equivalent to the difference voltage drop of the the load and the
actual supply voltage AND earth ground. Thus, the neutral is hot minus the
load vs. earth ground is the actual potential.

The voltage drop is negligible. The current draw may be more perceptible,
but not measured in this case.

A voltage drop to zero across a load is effectively infinity impedance. No
current can occur in such condiitions. No current means no electrical flow.
Wouldn't warm your tongue, never mind a spectacular electrical air arc.
What's present on one part of the circuit on the same wiring is also present
down the line.
Dave



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