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Posted by DD_BobK on October 26, 2009, 8:32 pm
wrote:
> > On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 13:28:13 -0400, Existential Angst wrote:
> >> Baseboard hot water systems are great, as they can be infinitely zoned
> >> with
> >> ease -- by their very design, in fact.
> > I'm curious how well they perform vs. wall-mount radiator panels, thoug=
h.
> > I grew up overseas with houses all fitted with the latter - my experien=
ce
> > of baseboard water-heat so far is that they all seem to take a lot long=
er
> > until the room *feels* warm. I assume it's because people tend to be at
> > "people height" and having the heat source right on the baseboard means=
it
> > takes a while before the benefit's really felt (we have electric
> > baseboards at our current house and they seem to give similar behavior)
> >> But what about using the same for air conditioning (:"chilled water")?
> >> Large buildings use this system, and have internal plumbing for handli=
ng
> >> the condensate -- which can overflow, btw, with disastrous apt.
> >> consequences.
> > Is a related problem to the above not going to happen - i.e. all the
> > cooled air will stay at the bottom of the room, with it still being hot=
at
> > the level where the occupants generally are?
> > My experience of AC has always been that it's ducted and blown upward -
> > without any kind of fan assist, maybe there's a "danger" that you'll ju=
st
> > end up expensively cooling everyone's feet?
> >> Is this do-able, practical in a house? =A0How would long-ish horizonta=
l
> >> pipe runs be handled? =A0Just avoid? =A0How to handle the condensate o=
ff
> >> vertical pipes?
> > I'm curious about that, too - mainly because the water from our well si=
ts
> > at about 50F year-round, and in the hot months the condensation on the
> > basement pipe runs can get quite bad. Insulation would presumably hlp, =
but
> > only if it's "good enough" (as otherwise it'll turn into a moisture tra=
p
> > and cause all sorts of issues).
> > Doubtless it's possible to buy pipe that has insulation bonded to it,
> > rather than doing it after the fact, and this would probably work well
> > for some kind of AC system.
> >> The energy savings would be, in my case, substantial, but the
> >> installation cost would also likely be substantial, at the least.
> > Personally I just open more windows when it gets hot - but it only gets=
up
> > to about 90F here, so I can appreciate it's a different matter in hotte=
r
> > areas.
> > I would like to fit hot-water radiators here, but only if I can find
> > some wall ones rather than baseboard...
> Indeed, I mis-spoke.
> Altho I indeed said "baseboard", thinking more of the pipes themselves, I
> mean these highly finned units, about the size of suitcases, that blow up
> and out, at about 45 deg -- altho for the heat they probably should blow
> *down* about 45 deg. =A0Perhaps what you meant by "wall radiator panels".
> But at any rate, these units are not cheap, either. =A0These units, Trane=
,
> that I priced over 10 years ago, were $1400 *each*. =A0goodgawd....
> And really nothing more than finned coils with a speed fan and an off
> position!
> But very quiet.
> And to respond to Bob, the chilled water is not used in an air-exchange
> system, with air being delivered, but the water actually piped to the
> buildings and to these room units, where a fan then makes the thermal
> exchange with the room air.
> In large complexes, the "condensers" for these units are actually huge
> evaporative cooling towers, the size of whole buildings themselves, with =
the
> refrigerant often being something like lithium bromide in very large
> "absorption chillers".
> But the condensing process is not the issue here, as many different types=
of
> water chilling systems can be used, with the chilled water piped directly
> into the living units.
> Thus, a substantial issue with condensation, which, as I mentioned before=
,
> has been knowd to flood out apartments.
> I think I calculated once that a residential 5 ton unit (60,000 btu's), o=
n a
> suff'ly humid hot day, can fill a 55 gal drum, or perhaps even quite a bi=
t
> more.
> So condensate handling is a big issue.
> --
> EA
> > cheers
> > Jules
EA-
I may be mistaken but I'm getting the vibe that you have pretty mcuh
no idea what you;re talking about....
>>>>nothing more than finned coils with a speed fan <<<<<
ah, that would be the water - air heater exchanger of which I spoke &
the point at which condensation must be dealt with
I think you need to read my post more carefully
cheers
Bob
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