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Framing on Slab - Out of Square

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Framing on Slab - Out of Square Hambone 03-09-2007
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Posted by DanG on March 10, 2007, 11:41 am

Framers are usually pretty accurate as they need to cut in a roof
based on that beginning; but if I were involved I would sure want
to double check who's right.

As has been stated, the anchor bolts can't be right or code
compliant depending on where you are. Is there a reason the
framer can't split the difference and get that wall sitting on the
concrete a little better? (In a bit to far at one end and out
less on the other)
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)
dgriff237@7cox.net



> longshot wrote:
>>>> We have just started framing on our home and the framer
>>>> indicates the
>>>> slab is not square on the corners. Not too bad, but still
>>>> 1.5" out of
>>>> square in 2 places. The framer has the bottom plate (2x4)
>>>> hanging off
>>>> the slab in a few places. He doesn't seem too worried ....
>>>> should I be?
>>>>
>>>> Is this common or just shoddy work on the concrete crew? Any
>>>> recommendations on what to do ... or let me know if this is
>>>> normal
>>>> course and I should do nothing.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>> It is certainly common for masons to make things out of
>>> square.
>>> Somewhat shoddy, but it happens all the time. Sometimes I
>>> think
>>> masons should frame a house every few years just to get a
>>> taste of
>>> what it's like to build on an out of square foundation.
>>>
>>> Hanging plates is a common way to deal with out of squareness.
>>> That
>>> can influence how the exterior finishes, but if it's a slab,
>>> it's not
>>> too big a deal. I recommend you do nothing.
>>>
>>
>> I agree. It's not that big of a deal. when you say out of
>> square 1.5", I assume you mean one diagonal is 3" longer than
>> the other? if it's 1.5" then it's really only 3/4" out which is
>> pretty damn good.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Actually - what I meant by 1.5" is that the bottom plate (2x4
> lumber) is hanging off the concrete by ~1.5". i.e, on one
> exterior wall, at one corner the bottom plate is flush with the
> concrete slab .... but at the Other end the bottom plate hangs
> off the outside roughly 1/5". Granted this wall is long - say
> about 25' ... but this seems shoddy and I am not happy with the
> concrete crew. Just don't know what if anything needs to be
> done?!
>
> I am thinking nothing, but will talk to the concrete guy and
> express my dissatisfaction - he works on referrals only and my
> word of mouth isn't going to be that great. Other than this
> item - the garage floor has about a 2' circular area that is
> low - so water stands in that spot about 1" deep - its right by
> the garage door - so wondering if they can sand down the area so
> that spot will drain outside??



Posted by longshot on March 10, 2007, 12:05 pm

> longshot wrote:
>>>> We have just started framing on our home and the framer indicates the
>>>> slab is not square on the corners. Not too bad, but still 1.5" out of
>>>> square in 2 places. The framer has the bottom plate (2x4) hanging off
>>>> the slab in a few places. He doesn't seem too worried .... should I
>>>> be?

that's pretty bad... I wouldn't think that would be expectable, is the
framer good buddies with the mason? from a structural standpoint, I doubt
you would ever have any problems or issues with the overhang. maybe flash
the bottom with aluminum if bugs or moisture are a major concern





Posted by Hambone on March 10, 2007, 9:54 am
longshot wrote:
>>> We have just started framing on our home and the framer indicates the
>>> slab is not square on the corners. Not too bad, but still 1.5" out of
>>> square in 2 places. The framer has the bottom plate (2x4) hanging off
>>> the slab in a few places. He doesn't seem too worried .... should I be?
>>>
>>> Is this common or just shoddy work on the concrete crew? Any
>>> recommendations on what to do ... or let me know if this is normal
>>> course and I should do nothing.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>> It is certainly common for masons to make things out of square.
>> Somewhat shoddy, but it happens all the time. Sometimes I think
>> masons should frame a house every few years just to get a taste of
>> what it's like to build on an out of square foundation.
>>
>> Hanging plates is a common way to deal with out of squareness. That
>> can influence how the exterior finishes, but if it's a slab, it's not
>> too big a deal. I recommend you do nothing.
>>
>
> I agree. It's not that big of a deal. when you say out of square 1.5", I
> assume you mean one diagonal is 3" longer than the other? if it's 1.5" then
> it's really only 3/4" out which is pretty damn good.
>
>
>

Actually - what I meant by 1.5" is that the bottom plate (2x4 lumber) is
hanging off the concrete by ~1.5". i.e, on one exterior wall, at one
corner the bottom plate is flush with the concrete slab .... but at the
Other end the bottom plate hangs off the outside roughly 1.5". Granted
this wall is long - say about 25' ... but this seems shoddy and I am not
happy with the concrete crew. Just don't know what if anything needs to
be done?!

I am thinking nothing, but will talk to the concrete guy and express my
dissatisfaction - he works on referrals only and my word of mouth isn't
going to be that great. Other than this item - the garage floor has
about a 2' circular area that is low - so water stands in that spot
about 1" deep - its right by the garage door - so wondering if they can
sand down the area so that spot will drain outside??

Posted by Noncompliant on March 10, 2007, 9:18 am
On the rectangular portion of a slab, we used the "X" measurement method to
determine squareness. Within 1/8" was considered good. 1/2" or more was
considered shoddy work.

The soil level next to the bad corners and sides, along with the moisture
level, and material used to cover the house, can be a problem in the future.
Won't manifest itself for sometime. There are cosmetic repairs for severe
out of square concrete slabs.

--
Noncompliant

Money don't wag the dog's tail.

> We have just started framing on our home and the framer indicates the slab
> is not square on the corners. Not too bad, but still 1.5" out of square
> in 2 places. The framer has the bottom plate (2x4) hanging off the slab
> in a few places. He doesn't seem too worried .... should I be?
>
> Is this common or just shoddy work on the concrete crew? Any
> recommendations on what to do ... or let me know if this is normal course
> and I should do nothing.
>
> Thanks.



Posted by Michael Bulatovich on March 10, 2007, 10:25 am
Good post. Without knowing the section, it's irresponsible to say something
is or isn't OK. Further, a 1.5" overhang of a 3.5" bottom plate leaves the
center of the wall/plate only 1/4" from the edge of concrete. I wouldn't do
that. (Assuming cast in place anchors, what do the anchor bolt-plate
connections look like?)

I would consider the repercussions of following the concrete with the
framing, before making a snap judgment. Given the other issues already
noted, I'd also be on the lookout for other potential problems with the
concrete work. It sounds like a questionable job. Fools rush in.....
--


MichaelB
www.michaelbulatovich.ca

> On the rectangular portion of a slab, we used the "X" measurement method
> to determine squareness. Within 1/8" was considered good. 1/2" or more
> was considered shoddy work.
>
> The soil level next to the bad corners and sides, along with the moisture
> level, and material used to cover the house, can be a problem in the
> future. Won't manifest itself for sometime. There are cosmetic repairs
> for severe out of square concrete slabs.
>
> --
> Noncompliant
>
> Money don't wag the dog's tail.
>
>> We have just started framing on our home and the framer indicates the
>> slab is not square on the corners. Not too bad, but still 1.5" out of
>> square in 2 places. The framer has the bottom plate (2x4) hanging off
>> the slab in a few places. He doesn't seem too worried .... should I be?
>>
>> Is this common or just shoddy work on the concrete crew? Any
>> recommendations on what to do ... or let me know if this is normal course
>> and I should do nothing.
>>
>> Thanks.
>
>



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