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Framing on Slab - Out of Square

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Framing on Slab - Out of Square Hambone 03-09-2007
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Posted by marson on March 10, 2007, 12:02 pm
yeah, I agree that hanging a 2x4 by 1.5" is getting iffy. But it
depends on what you are setting on it. A one story ranch in arizona
is probably fine, but a three story house in the cascade mountains is
probably not going to be fine.. I will say again that out of square
foundations are quite common. If you start hiring masons and expect
that they will get their slabs to within 1/8" of square, you're
dreaming. A lot of that is driven by cost. Did you pay for a Yugo or
did you pay for a BMW? . Time is money, and getting things right on
the nuts takes time. If the framers where forming the slab, they'd
take their time, because they would know from experience that a few
extra minutes getting started off on the right foot will be made up 10
times over when it comes time to frame on it. But masons, like most
subcontractors, develop tunnel vision and fail to see beyond their
part in a project.

What do you do about it? What is your involvement in the project?
are you serving as general or do you have a general? What kind of
building is it? Is it already too late? Houses can be built out of
square, and depending on the finish materials, noone will know but
maybe the sheetrockers. Or you could split the difference, hanging
plates less and allowing the house to be somewhat out of square. It
all depends on what you are building.

I have never seen a slab WITHOUT a birdbath or two. However, a 1"
deep puddle in 2 feet sounds pretty bad. Can you see it when it isn't
filled with water?


Posted by longshot on March 10, 2007, 12:07 pm

> Good post. Without knowing the section, it's irresponsible to say
> something is or isn't OK. Further, a 1.5" overhang of a 3.5" bottom plate
> leaves the center of the wall/plate only 1/4" from the edge of concrete. I
> wouldn't do that. (Assuming cast in place anchors, what do the anchor
> bolt-plate connections look like?)
>
if they are cast in place, they would be 1 3/4 from the edge of concrete &
miss the center of the 2x4. not that big of a problem IMO. simply because of
all the other tie in points




Posted by Michael Bulatovich on March 10, 2007, 2:26 pm

>
>> Good post. Without knowing the section, it's irresponsible to say
>> something is or isn't OK. Further, a 1.5" overhang of a 3.5" bottom plate
>> leaves the center of the wall/plate only 1/4" from the edge of concrete.
>> I wouldn't do that. (Assuming cast in place anchors, what do the anchor
>> bolt-plate connections look like?)
>>
> if they are cast in place, they would be 1 3/4 from the edge of concrete &
> miss the center of the 2x4. not that big of a problem IMO. simply because
> of all the other tie in points

Say they are 1-3/4 from the edge. The offset 2x4 only has 2" sitting on the
slab. 2-1.75=0.25, so center of anchor is only 1/4" into the plate, and
anchor diameter is typically 1/2"...you do the math there's likely no meat
left AT ALL on the plate.

I wouldn't do it, even if it is close to a perpendicular wall that's well
bolted. If you want to come up with rationalizations for accepting
substandard work, you don't have to work very hard. We all know the top ten.
The trickier thing is getting it done right, or making the best alternative
arrangements when things go wrong.
--


MichaelB
www.michaelbulatovich.ca


(I have a 1924 Craftsman whose main stair is 2" out of square.)



Posted by Bill on March 10, 2007, 4:13 pm
What if the place in question was replaced with 2X6's? Now would be the
cheapest time to change them out.

--
please reply to bargerw NO @ SPAM bellsouth.net and remove the NOSPAM


>
>>
>>> Good post. Without knowing the section, it's irresponsible to say
>>> something is or isn't OK. Further, a 1.5" overhang of a 3.5" bottom
>>> plate leaves the center of the wall/plate only 1/4" from the edge of
>>> concrete. I wouldn't do that. (Assuming cast in place anchors, what do
>>> the anchor bolt-plate connections look like?)
>>>
>> if they are cast in place, they would be 1 3/4 from the edge of concrete
>> & miss the center of the 2x4. not that big of a problem IMO. simply
>> because of all the other tie in points
>
> Say they are 1-3/4 from the edge. The offset 2x4 only has 2" sitting on
> the slab. 2-1.75=0.25, so center of anchor is only 1/4" into the plate,
> and anchor diameter is typically 1/2"...you do the math there's likely no
> meat left AT ALL on the plate.
>
> I wouldn't do it, even if it is close to a perpendicular wall that's well
> bolted. If you want to come up with rationalizations for accepting
> substandard work, you don't have to work very hard. We all know the top
> ten. The trickier thing is getting it done right, or making the best
> alternative arrangements when things go wrong.
> --
>
>
> MichaelB
> www.michaelbulatovich.ca
>
>
> (I have a 1924 Craftsman whose main stair is 2" out of square.)
>



Posted by Michael Bulatovich on March 10, 2007, 5:13 pm
That would be one approach...though the "nobody will see it" excuse would
have to be used. I don't like it because the mistake invites weathering.
Another (safer) approach might be, "Frame it crooked". Depending on the
flooring, and level of finish carpentry expected, that might not be a bad
solution.

In another post, the OP reveals he's the homeowner and "GC", so who knows
how straight the rest of the stuff is going to be? ...every room may be a
rhomboid by the time it's finished.
--


MichaelB
www.michaelbulatovich.ca

> What if the place in question was replaced with 2X6's? Now would be the
> cheapest time to change them out.
>
> --
> please reply to bargerw NO @ SPAM bellsouth.net and remove the NOSPAM
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>> Good post. Without knowing the section, it's irresponsible to say
>>>> something is or isn't OK. Further, a 1.5" overhang of a 3.5" bottom
>>>> plate leaves the center of the wall/plate only 1/4" from the edge of
>>>> concrete. I wouldn't do that. (Assuming cast in place anchors, what do
>>>> the anchor bolt-plate connections look like?)
>>>>
>>> if they are cast in place, they would be 1 3/4 from the edge of concrete
>>> & miss the center of the 2x4. not that big of a problem IMO. simply
>>> because of all the other tie in points
>>
>> Say they are 1-3/4 from the edge. The offset 2x4 only has 2" sitting on
>> the slab. 2-1.75=0.25, so center of anchor is only 1/4" into the plate,
>> and anchor diameter is typically 1/2"...you do the math there's likely no
>> meat left AT ALL on the plate.
>>
>> I wouldn't do it, even if it is close to a perpendicular wall that's well
>> bolted. If you want to come up with rationalizations for accepting
>> substandard work, you don't have to work very hard. We all know the top
>> ten. The trickier thing is getting it done right, or making the best
>> alternative arrangements when things go wrong.
>> --
>>
>>
>> MichaelB
>> www.michaelbulatovich.ca
>>
>>
>> (I have a 1924 Craftsman whose main stair is 2" out of square.)
>>
>
>



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