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Gas Piping Question Tim 04-29-2009
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Posted by PeterD on April 30, 2009, 9:13 am
wrote:

>I believe most general contractors are pretty much the same. We all came
>into this doing something like electrical or tile or carpentry or something
>else and we get licensed to be able to do it all so we don't have to bring
>in someone who may or may not be more qualified. The fact that we do not
>know EVERYTHING about a given topic doesn't necessarily mean we are not
>qualified. We could debate the "is the general contractor REALLY qualified
>to do everything?" question for 100 years.

That may be (or 'is') true, but for gas projects you may find that
there are additional (legal) requirements that you must be able to
meet to pass the buiding inspection. My comment is based on this being
a gas line (were it a water line, I'd have not bothered). Just that
most places are *really* sensitive about gas installations! (yep, it's
*almost* impossible to blow up a house by plumbing the crapper wrong!)
<bg>


>> wrote:
>>>Really nothing I guess.
>>>We are not plumbers.
>> Bottom line: if you are not qualified to do the work, get someone who
>> is.
>>>We are doing this as part of a huge remodel. We can't
>>>use "unions" as such and we know we have to use a left/right connection.

Posted by fftt on May 2, 2009, 4:13 am
> Really nothing I guess.
> We are not plumbers. We are doing this as part of a huge remodel. We can'=
t
> use "unions" as such and we know we have to use a left/right connection.
> Personally, I have had bad luck with right/lefts over the years. It alway=
s
> seems like one side is too loose when the other is tight. I get tired of
> fighting it. I always make sure both sides start at the same time and all
> that, but it seems like it just never goes on cleanly. It was just me try=
ing
> to get something done easily and without a problem.
> > Tim wrote:
> > ...
> >> I need to supply gas to a new hybrid water heater. According to the
> >> manufacturer, it requires a 3/4" input line.
> >> The gas line comes directly from the gas meter via a 1" line to the wa=
ter
> >> heater closet. There, it goes into a Tee. The Tee is a 1" (from the
> >> meter), 3/4" that feeds the rest of the house (furnace and stove), and
> >> 1/2" that feeds the existing water heater. Some say I have to remove t=
he
> >> Tee and go with one that gives me a 3/4" line to the rest of the house
> >> and a 3/4" line to the water heater. Others say I can just put a bushi=
ng
> >> on the 1/2" line, taking it up to 3/4" and I'll be fine.
> > ...
> >> Any thoughts? Go with a new tee or bush up the old one? Or any other
> >> idea?
> > ...
> > What could possibly be so hard about simply putting in a 3/4" tee and
> > going on?
> > --


Your "hybrid" sounds like a mini-tank with tankless heating capacity /
gas usage. Getting the pipe sized correctly is important to heater
performance.

What is the maximum gas consumption of the heater? I'm guessing
something in the 200K btu/hr. Depending on run length and other gas
demand; 3/4" should be fine

Do a proper analysis of your gas piping, considering all your current
& added gas usage...its not that difficult

google natural gas pipe sizing

and choose the third hit

or take a look at 5th hit...its a bit more detailed

Making up a connection via a "left/right" can be a PITA but if you
use GOOD quality teflon tape & a couple extra wraps that will be more
forgiving on the connection. Also, building in some piping compliance
with make the connections easier. Consider CSST which gives you the
benefits of "unions" without the arguments from inspectors....well, if
CSST is allowed in your area.

cheers
Bob

Posted by ransley on May 3, 2009, 7:34 am
> > Really nothing I guess.
> > We are not plumbers. We are doing this as part of a huge remodel. We ca=
n't
> > use "unions" as such and we know we have to use a left/right connection=
.
> > Personally, I have had bad luck with right/lefts over the years. It alw=
ays
> > seems like one side is too loose when the other is tight. I get tired o=
f
> > fighting it. I always make sure both sides start at the same time and a=
ll
> > that, but it seems like it just never goes on cleanly. It was just me t=
rying
> > to get something done easily and without a problem.
> > > Tim wrote:
> > > ...
> > >> I need to supply gas to a new hybrid water heater. According to the
> > >> manufacturer, it requires a 3/4" input line.
> > >> The gas line comes directly from the gas meter via a 1" line to the =
water
> > >> heater closet. There, it goes into a Tee. The Tee is a 1" (from the
> > >> meter), 3/4" that feeds the rest of the house (furnace and stove), a=
nd
> > >> 1/2" that feeds the existing water heater. Some say I have to remove=
the
> > >> Tee and go with one that gives me a 3/4" line to the rest of the hou=
se
> > >> and a 3/4" line to the water heater. Others say I can just put a bus=
hing
> > >> on the 1/2" line, taking it up to 3/4" and I'll be fine.
> > > ...
> > >> Any thoughts? Go with a new tee or bush up the old one? Or any other
> > >> idea?
> > > ...
> > > What could possibly be so hard about simply putting in a 3/4" tee and
> > > going on?
> > > --
> Your "hybrid" sounds like a mini-tank with tankless heating capacity /
> gas usage. =A0Getting the pipe sized correctly is important to heater
> performance.
> What is the maximum gas consumption of the heater? =A0 I'm guessing
> something in the 200K btu/hr. =A0 =A0Depending on run length and other ga=
s
> demand; 3/4" should be fine
> Do a proper analysis of your gas piping, considering all your current
> & added gas usage...its not that difficult
> google =A0 =A0 =A0natural gas pipe sizing
> and choose the third hit
> or take a look at =A05th hit...its a bit more detailed
> Making up a connection via a "left/right" can be a =A0PITA =A0but if you
> use GOOD quality teflon tape & a couple extra wraps that will be more
> forgiving on the connection. =A0Also, building in some piping compliance
> with make the connections easier. =A0Consider CSST which gives you the
> benefits of "unions" without the arguments from inspectors....well, if
> CSST is allowed in your area.
> cheers
> Bob- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -

"should be fine" my table shows 1" after 10 ft if I remember it right,
if flow is minimal 1" might be needed for all of it. You can live with
a heating system starved a bit and stay warm, but I dont like cold
showers.

Posted by Steve Barker on April 29, 2009, 1:58 pm
dpb wrote:
> Tim wrote:
> ...
>> I need to supply gas to a new hybrid water heater. According to the
>> manufacturer, it requires a 3/4" input line.
>> The gas line comes directly from the gas meter via a 1" line to the
>> water heater closet. There, it goes into a Tee. The Tee is a 1" (from
>> the meter), 3/4" that feeds the rest of the house (furnace and stove),
>> and 1/2" that feeds the existing water heater. Some say I have to
>> remove the Tee and go with one that gives me a 3/4" line to the rest
>> of the house and a 3/4" line to the water heater. Others say I can
>> just put a bushing on the 1/2" line, taking it up to 3/4" and I'll be
>> fine.
> ...
>> Any thoughts? Go with a new tee or bush up the old one? Or any other
>> idea?
> ...
> What could possibly be so hard about simply putting in a 3/4" tee and
> going on?
>
> --

Well depending on where the next union is, (or IF there even is one) he
may have to deconstruct the entire run to the furnace and stove.

Posted by Steve Barker on April 29, 2009, 1:57 pm
Tim wrote:
> I am getting different answers on this one in the field and I'd like a
> little help.
>
> I need to supply gas to a new hybrid water heater. According to the
> manufacturer, it requires a 3/4" input line.
>
> The gas line comes directly from the gas meter via a 1" line to the
> water heater closet. There, it goes into a Tee. The Tee is a 1" (from
> the meter), 3/4" that feeds the rest of the house (furnace and stove),
> and 1/2" that feeds the existing water heater. Some say I have to remove
> the Tee and go with one that gives me a 3/4" line to the rest of the
> house and a 3/4" line to the water heater. Others say I can just put a
> bushing on the 1/2" line, taking it up to 3/4" and I'll be fine.
>
> I've tried talking to the manufacturer and they do not want to get
> involved in "construction matters" (liability worries).
>
> This is in California (1/4 pound pressure gas).
>
> Any thoughts? Go with a new tee or bush up the old one? Or any other idea?
>
> Thanks
> Tim

just put the 1/2" line on the water heater. Especially for that short
distance. Sounds like your "T" is within a couple of feet of the
heater. You'd need a dam big heater to require any bigger line. Most
water heaters can be run on a 3/8" line.

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