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Posted by dpb on January 27, 2009, 12:33 pm
jamesgangnc@gmail.com wrote:
...
> It is very difficult to find experienced people to install and
> maintain these systems. The basic idea is a good one but until the
> volume of installations has increased there are risk factors.
> Certainly some people have had excellent results but there are horror
> stories as well. If you have some technical savy then you would be in
> a better position to have one. But imho they are not prime time for
> the average harry homeowner.
Water Furnace vets their distributors/installers. Can't imagine there's
any reasonably-sized area any longer that doesn't have experienced
installers. But, granted, I'd not want to be the first client for an
independent one-man shop kinda' guy w/o the factory/distributor rep's on
board.
Ours was the first ground loop system the fella' that did ours had done
-- but he had done 50 or more lake-loop systems so the trenching was all
that was new. Water Furnace sent rep out to scope out the site, sizing
calc's and verify backfill requirements, etc., for the loop. This,
again, was nearly 20 years ago--finding the experience now shouldn't be
particularly difficult.
Don't know there are any more "horror stories" w/ geothermal than
conventional installations--surely there are any number of hacks
installing HVAC systems w/ almost any disaster desired findable.
They've been around for 20+ years now commercially; that's pretty long.
For retrofit the extra cost for the loop/well if there isn't available
service water can make them expensive; sure, but for new construction
where there's dirt work anyway the extra costs can be limited by
judicious scheduling, etc.
And, the rest of the economics depends on the area, the availability and
pricing of alternative fuel, etc.
Again, they're not magic but well worth considering in the mix...
--
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Posted by jamesgangnc on January 28, 2009, 8:09 am
There are none within 5 miles of me while there are several thousand
gas/split ac systems. See my point?
> jamesgangnc@gmail.com wrote:
> ...
>> It is very difficult to find experienced people to install and
>> maintain these systems. The basic idea is a good one but until the
>> volume of installations has increased there are risk factors.
>> Certainly some people have had excellent results but there are horror
>> stories as well. If you have some technical savy then you would be in
>> a better position to have one. But imho they are not prime time for
>> the average harry homeowner.
> Water Furnace vets their distributors/installers. Can't imagine there's
> any reasonably-sized area any longer that doesn't have experienced
> installers. But, granted, I'd not want to be the first client for an
> independent one-man shop kinda' guy w/o the factory/distributor rep's on
> board.
> Ours was the first ground loop system the fella' that did ours had done --
> but he had done 50 or more lake-loop systems so the trenching was all that
> was new. Water Furnace sent rep out to scope out the site, sizing calc's
> and verify backfill requirements, etc., for the loop. This, again, was
> nearly 20 years ago--finding the experience now shouldn't be particularly
> difficult.
> Don't know there are any more "horror stories" w/ geothermal than
> conventional installations--surely there are any number of hacks
> installing HVAC systems w/ almost any disaster desired findable.
> They've been around for 20+ years now commercially; that's pretty long.
> For retrofit the extra cost for the loop/well if there isn't available
> service water can make them expensive; sure, but for new construction
> where there's dirt work anyway the extra costs can be limited by judicious
> scheduling, etc.
> And, the rest of the economics depends on the area, the availability and
> pricing of alternative fuel, etc.
> Again, they're not magic but well worth considering in the mix...
> --
>
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Posted by on January 28, 2009, 4:17 pm
> There are none within 5 miles of me while there are several thousand
> gas/split ac systems. =A0See my point?
> > jamesgan...@gmail.com wrote:
> > ...
> >> It is very difficult to find experienced people to install and
> >> maintain these systems. =A0The basic idea is a good one but until the
> >> volume of installations has increased there are risk factors.
> >> Certainly some people have had excellent results but there are horror
> >> stories as well. =A0If you have some technical savy then you would be =
in
> >> a better position to have one. =A0But imho they are not prime time for
> >> the average harry homeowner.
> > Water Furnace vets their distributors/installers. =A0Can't imagine ther=
e's
> > any reasonably-sized area any longer that doesn't have experienced
> > installers. =A0But, granted, I'd not want to be the first client for an
> > independent one-man shop kinda' guy w/o the factory/distributor rep's o=
n
> > board.
> > Ours was the first ground loop system the fella' that did ours had done=
-- =A0
> > but he had done 50 or more lake-loop systems so the trenching was all t=
hat
> > was new. =A0Water Furnace sent rep out to scope out the site, sizing ca=
lc's
> > and verify backfill requirements, etc., for the loop. =A0This, again, w=
as
> > nearly 20 years ago--finding the experience now shouldn't be particular=
ly
> > difficult.
> > Don't know there are any more "horror stories" w/ geothermal than
> > conventional installations--surely there are any number of hacks
> > installing HVAC systems w/ almost any disaster desired findable.
> > They've been around for 20+ years now commercially; that's pretty long.
> > For retrofit the extra cost for the loop/well if there isn't available
> > service water can make them expensive; sure, but for new construction
> > where there's dirt work anyway the extra costs can be limited by judici=
ous
> > scheduling, etc.
> > And, the rest of the economics depends on the area, the availability an=
d
> > pricing of alternative fuel, etc.
> > Again, they're not magic but well worth considering in the mix...
> > --- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
ASHRAE estimated life for geo is 24.4 years.
Only maintenance needed is usually changing the air filter.
Postive cash flow on added cost vs. conventional HVAC systems which
makes it easy to be green.
Federal tax credit of up to $2,000 for the homeowner
Why do I need a dealer within 5 miles?
Check the dealer locator and op cost calculator at www.waterfurnace.com
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Posted by jamesgangnc on January 28, 2009, 9:42 pm
Not the point of the 5 mile statement. It goes to the almost non-existent
volume of them as compared to regular units. There for finding qualified
guys that have any experience is a pain and expensive. I prefer to let
someone else pay the extra cost for being first. When there are more of
them around installed then I'll consider it.
> There are none within 5 miles of me while there are several thousand
> gas/split ac systems. See my point?
> > jamesgan...@gmail.com wrote:
> > ...
> >> It is very difficult to find experienced people to install and
> >> maintain these systems. The basic idea is a good one but until the
> >> volume of installations has increased there are risk factors.
> >> Certainly some people have had excellent results but there are horror
> >> stories as well. If you have some technical savy then you would be in
> >> a better position to have one. But imho they are not prime time for
> >> the average harry homeowner.
> > Water Furnace vets their distributors/installers. Can't imagine there's
> > any reasonably-sized area any longer that doesn't have experienced
> > installers. But, granted, I'd not want to be the first client for an
> > independent one-man shop kinda' guy w/o the factory/distributor rep's on
> > board.
> > Ours was the first ground loop system the fella' that did ours had
> > done --
> > but he had done 50 or more lake-loop systems so the trenching was all
> > that
> > was new. Water Furnace sent rep out to scope out the site, sizing calc's
> > and verify backfill requirements, etc., for the loop. This, again, was
> > nearly 20 years ago--finding the experience now shouldn't be
> > particularly
> > difficult.
> > Don't know there are any more "horror stories" w/ geothermal than
> > conventional installations--surely there are any number of hacks
> > installing HVAC systems w/ almost any disaster desired findable.
> > They've been around for 20+ years now commercially; that's pretty long.
> > For retrofit the extra cost for the loop/well if there isn't available
> > service water can make them expensive; sure, but for new construction
> > where there's dirt work anyway the extra costs can be limited by
> > judicious
> > scheduling, etc.
> > And, the rest of the economics depends on the area, the availability and
> > pricing of alternative fuel, etc.
> > Again, they're not magic but well worth considering in the mix...
> > --- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
ASHRAE estimated life for geo is 24.4 years.
Only maintenance needed is usually changing the air filter.
Postive cash flow on added cost vs. conventional HVAC systems which
makes it easy to be green.
Federal tax credit of up to $2,000 for the homeowner
Why do I need a dealer within 5 miles?
Check the dealer locator and op cost calculator at www.waterfurnace.com
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Posted by Twice Retired on January 29, 2009, 7:53 am
> There are none within 5 miles of me while there are several thousand
> gas/split ac systems. See my point?
> > jamesgan...@gmail.com wrote:
> > ...
> >> It is very difficult to find experienced people to install and
> >> maintain these systems. The basic idea is a good one but until the
> >> volume of installations has increased there are risk factors.
> >> Certainly some people have had excellent results but there are horror
> >> stories as well. If you have some technical savy then you would be in
> >> a better position to have one. But imho they are not prime time for
> >> the average harry homeowner.
> > Water Furnace vets their distributors/installers. Can't imagine there's
> > any reasonably-sized area any longer that doesn't have experienced
> > installers. But, granted, I'd not want to be the first client for an
> > independent one-man shop kinda' guy w/o the factory/distributor rep's on
> > board.
> > Ours was the first ground loop system the fella' that did ours had
> > done --
> > but he had done 50 or more lake-loop systems so the trenching was all
> > that
> > was new. Water Furnace sent rep out to scope out the site, sizing calc's
> > and verify backfill requirements, etc., for the loop. This, again, was
> > nearly 20 years ago--finding the experience now shouldn't be
> > particularly
> > difficult.
> > Don't know there are any more "horror stories" w/ geothermal than
> > conventional installations--surely there are any number of hacks
> > installing HVAC systems w/ almost any disaster desired findable.
> > They've been around for 20+ years now commercially; that's pretty long.
> > For retrofit the extra cost for the loop/well if there isn't available
> > service water can make them expensive; sure, but for new construction
> > where there's dirt work anyway the extra costs can be limited by
> > judicious
> > scheduling, etc.
> > And, the rest of the economics depends on the area, the availability and
> > pricing of alternative fuel, etc.
> > Again, they're not magic but well worth considering in the mix...
> > --- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
ASHRAE estimated life for geo is 24.4 years.
Only maintenance needed is usually changing the air filter.
Postive cash flow on added cost vs. conventional HVAC systems which
makes it easy to be green.
Federal tax credit of up to $2,000 for the homeowner
Why do I need a dealer within 5 miles?
Check the dealer locator and op cost calculator at www.waterfurnace.com
I have had Waterfurnace units, 2t & 4t, for the past 15 years. Cost to
install was about $12,000 with power co bonus of $1,000 per ton.
Heating/cooling 3,700 Sq Ft. Heating cost averages $60 per month while
cooling averages around $45. Only failures have been fan motor on 4t unit,
in warranty, and a thermostat.
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> maintain these systems. The basic idea is a good one but until the
> volume of installations has increased there are risk factors.
> Certainly some people have had excellent results but there are horror
> stories as well. If you have some technical savy then you would be in
> a better position to have one. But imho they are not prime time for
> the average harry homeowner.