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Posted by Cwatters on December 14, 2008, 4:56 pm
> Sorry, styrofoam or equivalent is a better idea,
Sorry if you know this but..
Styrofoam is polystyrene and there are similar foams that are practically
twice as good (eg polyisocyanurate).
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Posted by tg on December 14, 2008, 6:30 pm
On Dec 14, 4:56=A0pm, "Cwatters"
> > Sorry, styrofoam or equivalent is a better idea,
> Sorry if you know this but..
> Styrofoam is polystyrene and there are similar foams that are practically
> twice as good (eg polyisocyanurate).
Yes I know it that's why I said or "equivalent", meaning rigid foam---
but ok, it isn't exactly equivalent. :-) I'm not sure what is used in
prefab panels---it used to be mostly styrofoam, but I would specify
isocyanurate if I were having a custom building.
I figure ta will do some research.
-tg
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Posted by ta on December 16, 2008, 2:42 pm
> On Dec 14, 4:56=A0pm, "Cwatters"
.
> > > Sorry, styrofoam or equivalent is a better idea,
> > Sorry if you know this but..
> > Styrofoam is polystyrene and there are similar foams that are practical=
ly
> > twice as good (eg polyisocyanurate).
> Yes I know it that's why I said or "equivalent", meaning rigid foam---
> but ok, it isn't exactly equivalent. :-) =A0I'm not sure what is used in
> prefab panels---it used to be mostly styrofoam, but I would specify
> isocyanurate if I were having a custom building.
> =A0I figure ta will do some research.
> -tg
I am comparing two spec houses (not custom):
House1: solar-assisted hot water, isocyanurate insulation,
"sustainable" oak flooring, low E windows, dual-flush toilets, hardi-
board exterior and (surprisingly) a basement.
House2: solar-assisted hot water, blown cellulose insulation (which is
touted as coming from recycled newspaper), stained concrete (radiant
heated) and bamboo floors, dual-flush toilets, and hardi-board
exterior. Basement is an optional upgrade.
House 2 is more expensive.
Yes, still doing research.
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Posted by tg on December 16, 2008, 3:25 pm
> > On Dec 14, 4:56=A0pm, "Cwatters"
...
> > > > Sorry, styrofoam or equivalent is a better idea,
> > > Sorry if you know this but..
> > > Styrofoam is polystyrene and there are similar foams that are practic=
ally
> > > twice as good (eg polyisocyanurate).
> > Yes I know it that's why I said or "equivalent", meaning rigid foam---
> > but ok, it isn't exactly equivalent. :-) =A0I'm not sure what is used i=
n
> > prefab panels---it used to be mostly styrofoam, but I would specify
> > isocyanurate if I were having a custom building.
> > =A0I figure ta will do some research.
> > -tg
> I am comparing two spec houses (not custom):
> House1: solar-assisted hot water, isocyanurate insulation,
> "sustainable" oak flooring, low E windows, dual-flush toilets, hardi-
> board exterior and (surprisingly) a basement.
> House2: solar-assisted hot water, blown cellulose insulation (which is
> touted as coming from recycled newspaper), stained concrete (radiant
> heated) and bamboo floors, dual-flush toilets, and hardi-board
> exterior. Basement is an optional upgrade.
> House 2 is more expensive.
> Yes, still doing research.
I'm not sure what you mean by spec---are they built? If so, you can
hardly have an optional basement ;-).
My inclination is to think about what would be an ideal---that is, go
ahead and design a 'green dream house'---as a way to learn about the
various factors and their relative merits and value to you. Builders
are going to mix in 'features' just the way auto companies have
options in packages, and it usually isn't worth the money.
I have researched blown-in cellulose as a retrofit, and the underlying
problem is in the application---works fine as long as it is done very
well, but you're not going to know up front. Since you are in a
future tropical zone if AGW goes on, you should think about AC more
than heating. That's why heat pump may be your best choice. Also
what is R-value claimed and how do they justify it? Solar hot water
is a great idea---wish I had it.
Stuff like bamboo floors doesn't sound like it matters that much
really---is it supposed to be greener than oak or southern pine?
-tg
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Posted by ta on December 16, 2008, 4:24 pm
> > > On Dec 14, 4:56=A0pm, "Cwatters"
om...
> > > > > Sorry, styrofoam or equivalent is a better idea,
> > > > Sorry if you know this but..
> > > > Styrofoam is polystyrene and there are similar foams that are pract=
ically
> > > > twice as good (eg polyisocyanurate).
> > > Yes I know it that's why I said or "equivalent", meaning rigid foam--=
-
> > > but ok, it isn't exactly equivalent. :-) =A0I'm not sure what is used=
in
> > > prefab panels---it used to be mostly styrofoam, but I would specify
> > > isocyanurate if I were having a custom building.
> > > =A0I figure ta will do some research.
> > > -tg
> > I am comparing two spec houses (not custom):
> > House1: solar-assisted hot water, isocyanurate insulation,
> > "sustainable" oak flooring, low E windows, dual-flush toilets, hardi-
> > board exterior and (surprisingly) a basement.
> > House2: solar-assisted hot water, blown cellulose insulation (which is
> > touted as coming from recycled newspaper), stained concrete (radiant
> > heated) and bamboo floors, dual-flush toilets, and hardi-board
> > exterior. Basement is an optional upgrade.
> > House 2 is more expensive.
> > Yes, still doing research.
> I'm not sure what you mean by spec---are they built? If so, you can
> hardly have an optional basement ;-).
It's optional on the ones that haven't been built yet. It's a
neighborhood project.
> My inclination is to think about what would be an ideal---that is, go
> ahead and design a 'green dream house'---as a way to learn about the
> various factors and their relative merits and value to you. Builders
> are going to mix in 'features' just the way auto companies have
> options in packages, and it usually isn't worth the money.
> I have researched blown-in cellulose as a retrofit, and the underlying
> problem is in the application---works fine as long as it is done very
> well, but you're not going to know up front. =A0Since you are in a
> future tropical zone if AGW goes on, you should think about AC more
> than heating. =A0That's why heat pump may be your best choice. =A0
House1 is heat pump and House2 has mini-split a/c (this house is
actually ductless).
> Also
> what is R-value claimed and how do they justify it? =A0
From House2 specs:
"All exterior walls, and interior walls to unheated spaces, will be
insulated with blown cellulose R19. The ceiling/roof assembly will
have 12=94 cellulose insulation R38. All wood-constructed first floors
will have R19. All internal partitions around bathrooms, powder
room, and Master Bedroom shall have R11 high-density batt sound
insulation. All windows and door jambs will be sealed. The exterior
walls are 7/16=94 ZIP System Panel with STORMEXTM water-resistive
barrier."
Don't have the specs on House1.
> Solar hot water
> is a great idea---wish I had it.
Yeah, I'm trying to find out about reliability and maintenance costs
etc. These systems have natgas backup.
> Stuff like bamboo floors doesn't sound like it matters that much
> really---is it supposed to be greener than oak or southern pine?
Generally, I believe bamboo is considered to be more "sustainable"
since it can be replenished more easily and more quickly, and it's
easier to harvest, and the oak in this case is FSC-certified.
I agree, it's not one of the more critical considerations, although I
currently have bamboo flooring and, irrespective of any environmental
benefit, I simply like the appearance better than oak.
> -tg
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