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Posted by Robert Olin on September 8, 2009, 1:20 am
It is interesting that only China is making a serious attempt to limit
growth with it's one child policy and they are dead serious about it. It
sounds harsh but they will probably avert millions of horrible deaths by
famine.
One hundred million couples with a third child add one hundred million
additional people to the planet and they all need recourses and space. I
really get irritated at some self proclaimed environmentalist with 3 or 4
kids trying to limit my property rights. The president should get on a
bully pulpit and talk about responsible family size. With that said - I
don't see it ending well. It is inevitable that we will become as crowded
as India with slums to match. Also - big business loves cheap abundant
labor.
--
Robert Olin
Bob's Water & Septic LLC
jolin@whidbey.net
http://soilsandseptic.com/bobs.html
> Geode wrote:
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> A number of articles on the economic situation claim that
>>>>>>> "natural population growth" justifies and/or will absorb surplus
>>>>>>> housing starts in the current market. In general, housing
>>>>>>> starts, i.e. new homes on untouched land, are mostly about
>>>>>>> population growth, with the expectation that it will never end.
>>>>>>> But, there is nothing "natural" about annual world population
>>>>>>> growth of 75,000,000, with U.S. population growth at 3,000,000
>>>>>>> per year. If any other large animal grew its numbers like Man,
>>>>>>> we'd call it a plague and send in the troops.
>>>>>>> Endless growth of any kind (except intelligence) on a FINITE
>>>>>>> planet is UNnatural and should never be encouraged just to
>>>>>>> create construction jobs.
>>>>>>> E.A.
>>>>>>> http://enough_already.tripod.com/
>>>>>>> Can one really be a productive member of a consumptive society?
>>>>>> Over population is a terrible problem!! It is the very basis for
>>>>>> all our environmental problems and is even affecting human
>>>>>> behavior and health. It heads the human race towards doom,. But
>>>>>> what is so amazing is that no writer can make money writing about
>>>>>> it. It is not in the newspapers or magazines, not on TV. It is a
>>>>>> taboo subject, anethama. It offends the Catholics and the
>>>>>> Creationists, Muslim terrorists and anti-abortionists. It seems
>>>>>> that no one wants to offend them and stir up controversy.
>>>>>> In "Destiny and Civilization," I describe how this biological
>>>>>> process develops. Different animals go through different
>>>>>> processes when they grow too numerous in a limited area. Our
>>>>>> problem is that like some of them, behavior has been showing
>>>>>> signs of deteriorating. Stress and hostility build up. We have
>>>>>> the West, Islam, Marxist China and India all competing for the
>>>>>> remaining resources. The struggle from them can only get more
>>>>>> brutal.
>>>>>> What will happen is that either there is a population crash up
>>>>>> ahead, probably within the next forty years,or we adopt a new
>>>>>> ideological system, one which has among its clearly stated goals,
>>>>>> to limit population increase, promote recycling and eliminating
>>>>>> waste.
>>>>>> charleshttp://atheistic-science.com
>>>>> Every system is self limiting. Let me repeat, every system is self
>>>>> limiting. So why would one believe that population is different. It
>>>>> will self limit. It might take a while and there might be problems
>>>>> here and there until equilibrium is found, but in the end it will
>>>>> self- limit.
>>>>> As for now, there is plenty of room left in the world and more than
>>>>> enough space to grow food. Where I live, lots more land it taken
>>>>> OUT of production than put into production, but we still seem to
>>>>> grow more and more food year in and year out.
>>>>> Energy use will remain in equilibrium forever. It has to. There is
>>>>> no choice. If oil goes higher, then more substitutes will come onto
>>>>> the market. There is nothing magical about oil -- it is just the
>>>>> thing that replaced whale-oil when that became too expensive. Whale
>>>>> oil replaced something else. Something will eventually replace
>>>>> petroleum. If you think about it, we will NEVER run out of oil.
>>>>> Never. Never. Someday it will get too expensive to extract the last
>>>>> little bit and the substitutes will take over and the remaining oil
>>>>> will stay in the ground just like the remaining whales stayed in
>>>>> the ocean.
>>>>> What will replace oil? Who knows. We aren't to the point of finding
>>>>> out, yet. There's still plenty of it.
>>>> Soylent Green?
>>>>> If you people want something to worry about, worry about the Sun.
>>>>> It will eventually burn out and then we will all be in trouble.
>>>>> That's about the only certainty.- Hide quoted text -
>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> No, it's just that most people in the thread think that the world is
>>> a stagnant place and right now is the best possible situation but
>>> that everything will get worse from here. Guess what. The only
>>> constant
>>> is that things will change. Change is inevitable. 50 years ago no
>>> one ever how we would get here. But guess what, it happened. Maybe
>>> the biggest difference between and most other people here is that I
>>> have the people are resourceful, I believe that change can be for the
>>> better, and I am very optimistic about the human race. Things are
>>> good.
>> I am watching at this moment at the population of Easter island
>> growing an growing in an island of a about 15 miles. They started by
>> killing all the land birds of the island that were flightless. Later
>> they exterminated all the marine birds that were nesting on the
>> island. They started to chop down trees to make room for
>> agriculture. Then when the excess population was becoming impossible,
>> they began to quarrel and to kill each other. Then, to avoid civil
>> wars, they started the industry of building statues bigger and bigger
>> each year. This way, they got the young population busy carving the
>> statues, and carrying them to coast. With this entertainment the
>> retarded the time of reproducing of the young people. The trouble with
>> the statues is they needed to cut trees to make rails and paths to
>> carry the statues to the shore. They had also to chop down some trees
>> to make ropes with the fibers of their bark. Then after a century and
>> a half, the stopped carving statues.
> Because a dutch ship showed up and decimated the population with european
> diseases.
> http://www.abc.net.au/rn/counterpoint/stories/2009/2589097.htm
>> There were no more tree to chop on the island.
> Because they had brought rats with them and those reached plague
> proportions very quickly and they ate the seeds of those trees.
> http://www.abc.net.au/rn/counterpoint/stories/2009/2589097.htm
>> the, during the night, people from a clan pulled down
>> the statues of the rival clans. And little by little they were
>> tumbling down all the statues and ended in a terrible and constant
>> warfare, that nearly annihilated most of the population.
>> This proves that human mind are not rational on collective issues.
>> And that something as visible as very tall trees can be tumbled down
>> with a stone chopper till there is not any more left on the island.
>> This proves, that population does not stop ion their own, but by the
>> way of little catastrophes.
> All it actually proves is that tiny islands can be very vulnerable
> ecologically.
>> I am very pessimistic about the collective mind of humans is rational.
> Your problem. Have a look at what the west has achieved sometime.
>
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Posted by Rod Speed on September 8, 2009, 3:36 am
Robert Olin wrote:
> It is interesting that only China is making a serious attempt to limit
> growth with it's one child policy and they are dead serious about it.
It is indeed.
> It sounds harsh but they will probably avert millions of horrible deaths by
famine.
That isnt going to happen. We dont see famine anymore except where
the country has degenerated into the most obscene levels of civil war
and civil chaos or is dinosauring away like with North Korea.
> One hundred million couples with a third child add one hundred million
> additional people to the planet and they all need recourses and space.
That isnt a problem in the first world which isnt even self
replacing now on population if you take out immigration.
> I really get irritated at some self proclaimed environmentalist with 3 or 4
kids trying to limit my property rights.
That all averages out fine in the first world now.
> The president should get on a bully pulpit and talk about responsible family
size.
No need, we've fixed the problem without that in the modern first world.
> With that said - I don't see it ending well.
It clearly did with the first world and china. It remains to be seen
if places like India and the third world will ever come to their senses.
> It is inevitable that we will become as crowded as India with slums to match.
Not in the first world.
> Also - big business loves cheap abundant labor.
Not anymore. They have enough of a clue to get that sort of thing done in china
now,
where the labor is vastly cheaper than it can ever be in the first world anymore.
>> Geode wrote:
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> A number of articles on the economic situation claim that
>>>>>>>> "natural population growth" justifies and/or will absorb
>>>>>>>> surplus housing starts in the current market. In general,
>>>>>>>> housing starts, i.e. new homes on untouched land, are mostly
>>>>>>>> about population growth, with the expectation that it will
>>>>>>>> never end.
>>>>>>>> But, there is nothing "natural" about annual world population
>>>>>>>> growth of 75,000,000, with U.S. population growth at 3,000,000
>>>>>>>> per year. If any other large animal grew its numbers like Man,
>>>>>>>> we'd call it a plague and send in the troops.
>>>>>>>> Endless growth of any kind (except intelligence) on a FINITE
>>>>>>>> planet is UNnatural and should never be encouraged just to
>>>>>>>> create construction jobs.
>>>>>>>> E.A.
>>>>>>>> http://enough_already.tripod.com/
>>>>>>>> Can one really be a productive member of a consumptive society?
>>>>>>> Over population is a terrible problem!! It is the very basis for
>>>>>>> all our environmental problems and is even affecting human
>>>>>>> behavior and health. It heads the human race towards doom,. But
>>>>>>> what is so amazing is that no writer can make money writing
>>>>>>> about it. It is not in the newspapers or magazines, not on TV.
>>>>>>> It is a taboo subject, anethama. It offends the Catholics and
>>>>>>> the Creationists, Muslim terrorists and anti-abortionists. It
>>>>>>> seems that no one wants to offend them and stir up controversy.
>>>>>>> In "Destiny and Civilization," I describe how this biological
>>>>>>> process develops. Different animals go through different
>>>>>>> processes when they grow too numerous in a limited area. Our
>>>>>>> problem is that like some of them, behavior has been showing
>>>>>>> signs of deteriorating. Stress and hostility build up. We have
>>>>>>> the West, Islam, Marxist China and India all competing for the
>>>>>>> remaining resources. The struggle from them can only get more
>>>>>>> brutal.
>>>>>>> What will happen is that either there is a population crash up
>>>>>>> ahead, probably within the next forty years,or we adopt a new
>>>>>>> ideological system, one which has among its clearly stated
>>>>>>> goals, to limit population increase, promote recycling and
>>>>>>> eliminating waste.
>>>>>>> charleshttp://atheistic-science.com
>>>>>> Every system is self limiting. Let me repeat, every system is
>>>>>> self limiting. So why would one believe that population is
>>>>>> different. It will self limit. It might take a while and there
>>>>>> might be problems here and there until equilibrium is found, but
>>>>>> in the end it will self- limit.
>>>>>> As for now, there is plenty of room left in the world and more
>>>>>> than enough space to grow food. Where I live, lots more land it
>>>>>> taken OUT of production than put into production, but we still
>>>>>> seem to grow more and more food year in and year out.
>>>>>> Energy use will remain in equilibrium forever. It has to. There
>>>>>> is no choice. If oil goes higher, then more substitutes will
>>>>>> come onto the market. There is nothing magical about oil -- it
>>>>>> is just the thing that replaced whale-oil when that became too
>>>>>> expensive. Whale oil replaced something else. Something will
>>>>>> eventually replace petroleum. If you think about it, we will
>>>>>> NEVER run out of oil. Never. Never. Someday it will get too
>>>>>> expensive to extract the last little bit and the substitutes
>>>>>> will take over and the remaining oil will stay in the ground
>>>>>> just like the remaining whales stayed in the ocean.
>>>>>> What will replace oil? Who knows. We aren't to the point of
>>>>>> finding out, yet. There's still plenty of it.
>>>>> Soylent Green?
>>>>>> If you people want something to worry about, worry about the Sun.
>>>>>> It will eventually burn out and then we will all be in trouble.
>>>>>> That's about the only certainty.- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>> No, it's just that most people in the thread think that the world
>>>> is a stagnant place and right now is the best possible situation
>>>> but that everything will get worse from here. Guess what. The only
>>>> constant
>>>> is that things will change. Change is inevitable. 50 years ago no
>>>> one ever how we would get here. But guess what, it happened. Maybe
>>>> the biggest difference between and most other people here is that I
>>>> have the people are resourceful, I believe that change can be for
>>>> the better, and I am very optimistic about the human race. Things
>>>> are good.
>>> I am watching at this moment at the population of Easter island
>>> growing an growing in an island of a about 15 miles. They started
>>> by killing all the land birds of the island that were flightless. Later they
exterminated all the marine birds that
>>> were nesting on
>>> the island. They started to chop down trees to make room for
>>> agriculture. Then when the excess population was becoming
>>> impossible, they began to quarrel and to kill each other. Then, to
>>> avoid civil wars, they started the industry of building statues
>>> bigger and bigger each year. This way, they got the young
>>> population busy carving the statues, and carrying them to coast.
>>> With this entertainment the retarded the time of reproducing of the
>>> young people. The trouble with the statues is they needed to cut
>>> trees to make rails and paths to carry the statues to the shore. They had
also to chop down some trees to make ropes
>>> with the fibers
>>> of their bark. Then after a century and a half, the stopped
>>> carving statues.
>> Because a dutch ship showed up and decimated the population with
>> european diseases.
>> http://www.abc.net.au/rn/counterpoint/stories/2009/2589097.htm
>>> There were no more tree to chop on the island.
>> Because they had brought rats with them and those reached plague
>> proportions very quickly and they ate the seeds of those trees.
>> http://www.abc.net.au/rn/counterpoint/stories/2009/2589097.htm
>>> the, during the night, people from a clan pulled down
>>> the statues of the rival clans. And little by little they were
>>> tumbling down all the statues and ended in a terrible and constant
>>> warfare, that nearly annihilated most of the population.
>>> This proves that human mind are not rational on collective issues.
>>> And that something as visible as very tall trees can be tumbled down
>>> with a stone chopper till there is not any more left on the island.
>>> This proves, that population does not stop ion their own, but by the
>>> way of little catastrophes.
>> All it actually proves is that tiny islands can be very vulnerable
>> ecologically.
>>> I am very pessimistic about the collective mind of humans is
>>> rational.
>> Your problem. Have a look at what the west has achieved sometime.
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Posted by George Conklin on September 8, 2009, 6:19 am
> It is interesting that only China is making a serious attempt to limit
> growth with it's one child policy and they are dead serious about it. It
> sounds harsh but they will probably avert millions of horrible deaths by
> famine.
> One hundred million couples with a third child add one hundred million
> additional people to the planet and they all need recourses and space. I
> really get irritated at some self proclaimed environmentalist with 3 or 4
> kids trying to limit my property rights. The president should get on a
> bully pulpit and talk about responsible family size. With that said - I
> don't see it ending well. It is inevitable that we will become as crowded
> as India with slums to match. Also - big business loves cheap abundant
> labor.
The TFRs in the USA are exactly at replacment levels.
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Posted by Geode on April 27, 2009, 2:04 pm
> > A number of articles on the economic situation claim that "natural
> > population growth" justifies and/or will absorb surplus housing starts
> > in the current market. In general, housing starts, i.e. new homes on
> > untouched land, are mostly about population growth, with the
> > expectation that it will never end.
> > But, there is nothing "natural" about annual world population growth
> > of 75,000,000, with U.S. population growth at 3,000,000 per year. If
> > any other large animal grew its numbers like Man, we'd call it a
> > plague and send in the troops.
> > Endless growth of any kind (except intelligence) on a FINITE planet is
> > UNnatural and should never be encouraged just to create construction
> > jobs.
> > E.A.
> >http://enough_already.tripod.com/
> > Can one really be a productive member of a consumptive society?
> Over population is a terrible problem!! =A0It is the very basis for all
> our environmental problems and is even affecting human behavior and
> health. =A0It heads the human race towards doom,. But what is so amazing
> is that no writer can make money writing about it. =A0It is not in the
> newspapers or magazines, not on TV. =A0It is a taboo subject, anethama.
> It offends the Catholics and the Creationists, Muslim terrorists and
> anti-abortionists. =A0It seems that no one wants to offend them and stir
> up controversy.
> In "Destiny and Civilization," I describe how this biological process
> develops. =A0Different animals go through different processes when they
> grow too numerous in a limited area. Our problem is that like some of
> them, behavior has been showing signs of deteriorating. =A0Stress and
> hostility build up. =A0We have the West, Islam, Marxist China and India
> all competing for the remaining resources. =A0The struggle from them can
> only get more brutal.
> What will happen is that either there is a population crash up ahead,
> probably within the next forty years,or we adopt a new ideological
> system, one which has among its clearly stated goals, to limit
> population increase, promote recycling and eliminating waste.
> charleshttp://atheistic-science.com
I think the next thermonuvlear war would explode from Iran and
outwards.
Those Muslim nations had been growing at a demencial pace, well over
2,5% over tha past 50 years. They are living in very arid climates,
and growing up faster than sudamericans and africans.
This is themonuclear clock bomb ticking.
Leopoldo
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Posted by Rod Speed on April 27, 2009, 3:20 pm
Geode wrote:
>>> A number of articles on the economic situation claim that "natural
>>> population growth" justifies and/or will absorb surplus housing
>>> starts in the current market. In general, housing starts, i.e. new
>>> homes on untouched land, are mostly about population growth, with
>>> the expectation that it will never end.
>>> But, there is nothing "natural" about annual world population growth
>>> of 75,000,000, with U.S. population growth at 3,000,000 per year. If
>>> any other large animal grew its numbers like Man, we'd call it a
>>> plague and send in the troops.
>>> Endless growth of any kind (except intelligence) on a FINITE planet
>>> is UNnatural and should never be encouraged just to create
>>> construction jobs.
>>> E.A.
>>> http://enough_already.tripod.com/
>>> Can one really be a productive member of a consumptive society?
>> Over population is a terrible problem!! It is the very basis for all
>> our environmental problems and is even affecting human behavior and
>> health. It heads the human race towards doom,. But what is so amazing
>> is that no writer can make money writing about it. It is not in the
>> newspapers or magazines, not on TV. It is a taboo subject, anethama.
>> It offends the Catholics and the Creationists, Muslim terrorists and
>> anti-abortionists. It seems that no one wants to offend them and stir
>> up controversy.
>> In "Destiny and Civilization," I describe how this biological process
>> develops. Different animals go through different processes when they
>> grow too numerous in a limited area. Our problem is that like some of
>> them, behavior has been showing signs of deteriorating. Stress and
>> hostility build up. We have the West, Islam, Marxist China and India
>> all competing for the remaining resources. The struggle from them can
>> only get more brutal.
>> What will happen is that either there is a population crash up ahead,
>> probably within the next forty years,or we adopt a new ideological
>> system, one which has among its clearly stated goals, to limit
>> population increase, promote recycling and eliminating waste.
>> charleshttp://atheistic-science.com
> I think the next thermonuvlear war would explode from Iran and outwards.
Not a chance. Isreal would nuke them back the stone age before they got a chance
to do that.
> Those Muslim nations had been growing at a demencial pace, well
> over 2,5% over tha past 50 years. They are living in very arid climates,
A hell of a lot of them arent. Have a look at Indonesia sometime.
Which just happens to be by far the biggest muslim country in the entire world.
> and growing up faster than sudamericans and africans.
> This is themonuclear clock bomb ticking.
Nope, you watch.
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