Old subject but still ongoing with concrete and asphalt driveway HELP needed for proceeding attempt to recoup something (0/1)

Posted by Roscoe P Pendoscoe on February 25, 2009, 9:25 am

About a year ago some knowledgable folks replied and gave us info
regarding a 5 month old concrete pad and an asphalt turn-around
installed in Sept and was showing signs of considerable FLAKING,
spalling, crooked joints, oil stains from asphalt rollers on 2 day old
concrete they drove on.

Oh and lots more.

Ring a bell?

I had been assured by the principals (owner & his Son) who made a
personal visit last Spring to assure me with a HANDSHAKE and THEIR
WORD their word they would fix the issues.

Now after patiently waiting for them to make the effort I get a
statement an e-mail "Once again, we have told you before we did not do
your concrete work we only sell ready-mix!" and "We pave driveways
that is what we warranty." and lastly If you are having problems with
your concrete you need to contact T*** H******* he was your concrete
contractor."

I hired one Contractor. A contractor representing themselves as a
Ready Mix and Asphalt contractor as in their name.

I paid ONLY them and no one else. If they had a finisher not a direct
employee I had no knowledge of that and never did. Now they are trying
to shift the responsibility to this person knowing full well he does
not have the resources to accomplish any repair or any kind due to the
scope of the problem.

This is the company that drove all over my 2 day old concrete pad
repeatedly with their asphalt rollers and then told me they do it ALL
THE TIME with no negative effects.

Most that replied to this were totally amazed that an experienced
cement contractor would even consider this good practice even in a
remote instance much less a good idea as a generally accepted
practice.

Ring a bell?

I would just like to have some knowledgeable folks in the business
post their learned opinions for me to possibly refer to. Someone had
an affiliation with the Portland Cement Organization or something like
that.

To put into perspective of the type of folks I am dealing with, there
were DOZENS of hydraulic oil spots with some as big as pie plates from
the rollers backing onto the concrete pad, the rolling out onto the
asphalt. A particularly large one where they parked one roller for at
least 2 hours after supervision had left. (3 of my neighbors saw this
and volunteered it as they couldn't believe they were even on it much
less the time there) as it was the only shady area.

When I saw the spots I simply asked that they clean them up quickly.
Immediately there was a denial of responsibility and if I attempted to
hold back the last payment I might expect PHYSICAL HARM if B***** was
to be the one to attempt collection from that point.

I am an Electrician with 30 years experience and have been around
construction all my life. I noted that the surface of the concrete
just didn't appear right and looked like it had "tiger stripes" for
lack of a better description. From that point on, every thing I said
was deemed that I was being TOO FUSSY and as far as oil spots go,
"it's a driveway, it's going to get spots on it". Well, sorry, it is
new and I'll put the oil spots on it and don't think paying someone
else to do it is a road I would consider.

The oil spots are only cosmetic at this point although I personally
spent a lot of time with no positive results, the FLAKING and PITTING
of the concrete pad is our main concern.

I have swept up enough to fill a 5 gallon bucket more than halfway
full.

It looks awful.

I am lead to believe it is from an improper mix, or finishing while
too wet. (spalling)

The asphalt also cracked all the way across the width within 5
months.(bad stop/start-improper temperature)

It has a 1' sag across the entire length.

They left a mound of dirt and debris easily moved with their skid
steer.

I apologize for the long-winded description. I will attempt to provide
pictures as attachments. 2 Virus free ZIP FILES.

Thanks for an ear. If those that have a valid point and explanation
would be greatly appreciated. I really thought they would fix it after
shaking my hand and giving me their word they would but I see know I
was only being appeased and outright lied to.

Regards,

RP

MN Electrical Contractor

Knowledge is like money, the less you talk about it
the more people assume you have.

Posted by jloomis on February 25, 2009, 10:22 am

Who did you write the check to for the work?
contact those who you wrote the check to.

The concrete was not cured for a roller to drive on it.(it was damaged by
the roller)
The oil spilling and spalling problems, are all a part of the job. The job
was not done properly and in Calif. if you have a problem, you can call the
Contractor License Board. Do you have a similiar board?
I would call back or visit the primary contractor with your evidence and
pictures and also explain if you do not get satisfaction from them you will
proceed with legalities.
jloomisconstruction and concrete

> About a year ago some knowledgable folks replied and gave us info
> regarding a 5 month old concrete pad and an asphalt turn-around
> installed in Sept and was showing signs of considerable FLAKING,
> spalling, crooked joints, oil stains from asphalt rollers on 2 day old
> concrete they drove on.
> Oh and lots more.
> Ring a bell?
> I had been assured by the principals (owner & his Son) who made a
> personal visit last Spring to assure me with a HANDSHAKE and THEIR
> WORD their word they would fix the issues.
> Now after patiently waiting for them to make the effort I get a
> statement an e-mail "Once again, we have told you before we did not do
> your concrete work we only sell ready-mix!" and "We pave driveways
> that is what we warranty." and lastly If you are having problems with
> your concrete you need to contact T*** H******* he was your concrete
> contractor."
> I hired one Contractor. A contractor representing themselves as a
> Ready Mix and Asphalt contractor as in their name.
> I paid ONLY them and no one else. If they had a finisher not a direct
> employee I had no knowledge of that and never did. Now they are trying
> to shift the responsibility to this person knowing full well he does
> not have the resources to accomplish any repair or any kind due to the
> scope of the problem.
> This is the company that drove all over my 2 day old concrete pad
> repeatedly with their asphalt rollers and then told me they do it ALL
> THE TIME with no negative effects.
> Most that replied to this were totally amazed that an experienced
> cement contractor would even consider this good practice even in a
> remote instance much less a good idea as a generally accepted
> practice.
> Ring a bell?
> I would just like to have some knowledgeable folks in the business
> post their learned opinions for me to possibly refer to. Someone had
> an affiliation with the Portland Cement Organization or something like
> that.
> To put into perspective of the type of folks I am dealing with, there
> were DOZENS of hydraulic oil spots with some as big as pie plates from
> the rollers backing onto the concrete pad, the rolling out onto the
> asphalt. A particularly large one where they parked one roller for at
> least 2 hours after supervision had left. (3 of my neighbors saw this
> and volunteered it as they couldn't believe they were even on it much
> less the time there) as it was the only shady area.
> When I saw the spots I simply asked that they clean them up quickly.
> Immediately there was a denial of responsibility and if I attempted to
> hold back the last payment I might expect PHYSICAL HARM if B***** was
> to be the one to attempt collection from that point.
> I am an Electrician with 30 years experience and have been around
> construction all my life. I noted that the surface of the concrete
> just didn't appear right and looked like it had "tiger stripes" for
> lack of a better description. From that point on, every thing I said
> was deemed that I was being TOO FUSSY and as far as oil spots go,
> "it's a driveway, it's going to get spots on it". Well, sorry, it is
> new and I'll put the oil spots on it and don't think paying someone
> else to do it is a road I would consider.
> The oil spots are only cosmetic at this point although I personally
> spent a lot of time with no positive results, the FLAKING and PITTING
> of the concrete pad is our main concern.
> I have swept up enough to fill a 5 gallon bucket more than halfway
> full.
> It looks awful.
> I am lead to believe it is from an improper mix, or finishing while
> too wet. (spalling)
> The asphalt also cracked all the way across the width within 5
> months.(bad stop/start-improper temperature)
> It has a 1' sag across the entire length.
> They left a mound of dirt and debris easily moved with their skid
> steer.
> I apologize for the long-winded description. I will attempt to provide
> pictures as attachments. 2 Virus free ZIP FILES.
> Thanks for an ear. If those that have a valid point and explanation
> would be greatly appreciated. I really thought they would fix it after
> shaking my hand and giving me their word they would but I see know I
> was only being appeased and outright lied to.
> Regards,
> RP
> MN Electrical Contractor
> Knowledge is like money, the less you talk about it
> the more people assume you have.

Posted by DanG on February 25, 2009, 11:45 am

Roscoe, I remember your posts. This group has lost many of its
long time contributors.

I'm sorry that you are having such a horrible concrete experience.
Flaking or spalling is usually caused by one or more of several
things:
Working the concrete before the bleed water has dissipated
Using a power trowel on air entrained concrete.
Failure to cure concrete.
Bad mix design from the supplier.
HIgh wind (though this usually only gives an alligator appearance
of hairline cracks)
Freezing in the first few days.
Salt or other chemical in the top layer.

It is normal to not even allow car weight or any other usage of
green concrete. Subject to admixtures which may have been used,
this is usually for the first 7 days, at least 3. This is to
allow the concrete to make sufficient strength to withstand the
loading. Curing of the concrete with water or chemical curing
compound should be applied for this same reason. The normal
problem caused by early entry would be cracking, not normally a
top finish problem.

There is excellent information at this site:
http://www.concretenetwork.com/

I'm afraid you have let things go too long. Small claims or visit
with your attorney about possibilities. Too bad that the days of
hand shake business are long gone. A tape recording of your last
conversation with them would have been useful.

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)
dgriff237@7cox.net

> About a year ago some knowledgable folks replied and gave us
> info
> regarding a 5 month old concrete pad and an asphalt turn-around
> installed in Sept and was showing signs of considerable FLAKING,
> spalling, crooked joints, oil stains from asphalt rollers on 2
> day old
> concrete they drove on.
> Oh and lots more.
> Ring a bell?
> I had been assured by the principals (owner & his Son) who made
> a
> personal visit last Spring to assure me with a HANDSHAKE and
> THEIR
> WORD their word they would fix the issues.
> Now after patiently waiting for them to make the effort I get a
> statement an e-mail "Once again, we have told you before we did
> not do
> your concrete work we only sell ready-mix!" and "We pave
> driveways
> that is what we warranty." and lastly If you are having problems
> with
> your concrete you need to contact T*** H******* he was your
> concrete
> contractor."
> I hired one Contractor. A contractor representing themselves as
> a
> Ready Mix and Asphalt contractor as in their name.
> I paid ONLY them and no one else. If they had a finisher not a
> direct
> employee I had no knowledge of that and never did. Now they are
> trying
> to shift the responsibility to this person knowing full well he
> does
> not have the resources to accomplish any repair or any kind due
> to the
> scope of the problem.
> This is the company that drove all over my 2 day old concrete
> pad
> repeatedly with their asphalt rollers and then told me they do
> it ALL
> THE TIME with no negative effects.
> Most that replied to this were totally amazed that an
> experienced
> cement contractor would even consider this good practice even in
> a
> remote instance much less a good idea as a generally accepted
> practice.
> Ring a bell?
> I would just like to have some knowledgeable folks in the
> business
> post their learned opinions for me to possibly refer to. Someone
> had
> an affiliation with the Portland Cement Organization or
> something like
> that.
> To put into perspective of the type of folks I am dealing with,
> there
> were DOZENS of hydraulic oil spots with some as big as pie
> plates from
> the rollers backing onto the concrete pad, the rolling out onto
> the
> asphalt. A particularly large one where they parked one roller
> for at
> least 2 hours after supervision had left. (3 of my neighbors saw
> this
> and volunteered it as they couldn't believe they were even on it
> much
> less the time there) as it was the only shady area.
> When I saw the spots I simply asked that they clean them up
> quickly.
> Immediately there was a denial of responsibility and if I
> attempted to
> hold back the last payment I might expect PHYSICAL HARM if
> B***** was
> to be the one to attempt collection from that point.
> I am an Electrician with 30 years experience and have been
> around
> construction all my life. I noted that the surface of the
> concrete
> just didn't appear right and looked like it had "tiger stripes"
> for
> lack of a better description. From that point on, every thing I
> said
> was deemed that I was being TOO FUSSY and as far as oil spots
> go,
> "it's a driveway, it's going to get spots on it". Well, sorry,
> it is
> new and I'll put the oil spots on it and don't think paying
> someone
> else to do it is a road I would consider.
> The oil spots are only cosmetic at this point although I
> personally
> spent a lot of time with no positive results, the FLAKING and
> PITTING
> of the concrete pad is our main concern.
> I have swept up enough to fill a 5 gallon bucket more than
> halfway
> full.
> It looks awful.
> I am lead to believe it is from an improper mix, or finishing
> while
> too wet. (spalling)
> The asphalt also cracked all the way across the width within 5
> months.(bad stop/start-improper temperature)
> It has a 1' sag across the entire length.
> They left a mound of dirt and debris easily moved with their
> skid
> steer.
> I apologize for the long-winded description. I will attempt to
> provide
> pictures as attachments. 2 Virus free ZIP FILES.
> Thanks for an ear. If those that have a valid point and
> explanation
> would be greatly appreciated. I really thought they would fix it
> after
> shaking my hand and giving me their word they would but I see
> know I
> was only being appeased and outright lied to.
> Regards,
> RP
> MN Electrical Contractor
> Knowledge is like money, the less you talk about it
> the more people assume you have.

Posted by RicodJour on February 25, 2009, 12:03 pm

wrote:

> Thanks for an ear. If those that have a valid point and explanation
> would be greatly appreciated. I really thought they would fix it after
> shaking my hand and giving me their word they would but I see know I
> was only being appeased and outright lied to.

Well, now you know who you're dealing with. If you wait much longer
you might not be able to make a claim. It's time to stop being
patient and start talking to a lawyer, contractor licensing, etc.

R

Posted by PeterD on February 25, 2009, 2:56 pm

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 08:25:02 -0600, Roscoe P Pendoscoe

I'm not sure why you posted this (again) here. IIRC, the suggestion
was to get a lawyer and let him settle the matter for you properly.
That's what lawyers are for, and you seen to be just getting pain from
your tries.

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