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Quality issue with LVL header in basement?

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Quality issue with LVL header in basement? soboko 12-28-2006
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Posted by on December 28, 2006, 10:45 pm
Hi all,

I hired a general contractor to replace a load-bearing wall in my
basement, and I have a couple of concerns about the work (in progress,
almost finished). The structural engineer proposed a 14" LVL header
supported by two columns composed of 3 2X6's. So that's what the
contractor has installed.

Here are my concerns. On one side of the new header, there are 3/8" -
1/2" gaps between the joists and header. (On the other side they're
flush) And at one end of the beam, there is some major notching in the
header, right above the support post.

( 3/8" - 1/2" gaps between joists and header:
http://i10.tinypic.com/33ynjsy.jpg )
( notching at end of LVL beam: http://i18.tinypic.com/2em1xyf.jpg )

Here's a few other bits of information. Before starting work, I
verified that the contractor has an active general contractor's license
with no disciplinary action on record. The structural engineer was
suggested by him, but he works for a medium-sized firm. I sent him the
pictures today and called to follow up, but he was gone for the day.
Naturally, I'll be calling him first thing tomorrow. The work is not
finished, and I have not paid anything so far.

So the question is, do I have anything to be concerned about here? If
there are issues how should I address them?

Thanks in advance.


Posted by Bobk207 on December 28, 2006, 11:36 pm

soboko@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I hired a general contractor to replace a load-bearing wall in my
> basement, and I have a couple of concerns about the work (in progress,
> almost finished). The structural engineer proposed a 14" LVL header
> supported by two columns composed of 3 2X6's. So that's what the
> contractor has installed.
>
> Here are my concerns. On one side of the new header, there are 3/8" -
> 1/2" gaps between the joists and header. (On the other side they're
> flush) And at one end of the beam, there is some major notching in the
> header, right above the support post.
>
> ( 3/8" - 1/2" gaps between joists and header:
> http://i10.tinypic.com/33ynjsy.jpg )
> ( notching at end of LVL beam: http://i18.tinypic.com/2em1xyf.jpg )
>
> Here's a few other bits of information. Before starting work, I
> verified that the contractor has an active general contractor's license
> with no disciplinary action on record. The structural engineer was
> suggested by him, but he works for a medium-sized firm. I sent him the
> pictures today and called to follow up, but he was gone for the day.
> Naturally, I'll be calling him first thing tomorrow. The work is not
> finished, and I have not paid anything so far.
>
> So the question is, do I have anything to be concerned about here? If
> there are issues how should I address them?
>
> Thanks in advance.


Good photos....not the worst work I've seen but it ain't any where near
the best.

Did the SE do a site visit?

Looks like the floor plywood is taking the load at the header rather
than the joists...one of the joists looks like it has a joist hanger
but not the others?

All that notching isn't great, if your GC does that sort of work....I'm
now concerned about the built-up post....how did he interface it with
the basement floor? So it can wick moisture & rot?

Let's see what your SE says......I would suggest slapping two more
2x6's so you can get some header bearing under the area beyond the
notches.

As for the joists...how about a piece of OSB sistered to the LVL (full
depth) & add some joist hangers...might want to jam a temporary supoprt
(2x4, floor to josit) under the joist while installing the
hangers.....use nails longer than the normal joist hanger nails so you
can get into the LVL

but really you should get the "fix" from your SE (& your GC should pay,
if there are any charges)

cheers
Bob


Posted by on December 29, 2006, 12:19 am
> Good photos....not the worst work I've seen but it ain't any where near
> the best.
>
> Did the SE do a site visit?

He did, but before the old wall came down. He hasn't seen the new
work, unless he's read his email recently.

> Looks like the floor plywood is taking the load at the header rather
> than the joists...one of the joists looks like it has a joist hanger
> but not the others?

The work is in progress.. only a few of the joists have hangers so far.
There are still temporary support walls in place on both sides of the
header. As far as the plywood taking the load (necessary due to
extensive wiring), this is supposed to be addressed with shims.
(hopefully that's ok, the SE said it should be)

> All that notching isn't great, if your GC does that sort of work....I'm
> now concerned about the built-up post....how did he interface it with
> the basement floor? So it can wick moisture & rot?

I think this was done well, see photo here (
http://i18.tinypic.com/4h86tfk.jpg ).

> Let's see what your SE says......I would suggest slapping two more
> 2x6's so you can get some header bearing under the area beyond the
> notches.

That's kind of what I was thinking.

> As for the joists...how about a piece of OSB sistered to the LVL (full
> depth) & add some joist hangers...might want to jam a temporary supoprt
> (2x4, floor to josit) under the joist while installing the
> hangers.....use nails longer than the normal joist hanger nails so you
> can get into the LVL

If that's structurally sound, then great... we can all get out of this
without too much trouble. The temporary wall is still in place so this
should not be too difficult.

> but really you should get the "fix" from your SE (& your GC should pay,
> if there are any charges)
>
> cheers
> Bob

Thanks for your help.

- S


Posted by Bobk207 on December 29, 2006, 11:11 am

soboko@gmail.com wrote:
> > Good photos....not the worst work I've seen but it ain't any where near
> > the best.
> >
> > Did the SE do a site visit?
>
> He did, but before the old wall came down. He hasn't seen the new
> work, unless he's read his email recently.
>
> > Looks like the floor plywood is taking the load at the header rather
> > than the joists...one of the joists looks like it has a joist hanger
> > but not the others?
>
> The work is in progress.. only a few of the joists have hangers so far.
> There are still temporary support walls in place on both sides of the
> header. As far as the plywood taking the load (necessary due to
> extensive wiring), this is supposed to be addressed with shims.
> (hopefully that's ok, the SE said it should be)
>
> > All that notching isn't great, if your GC does that sort of work....I'm
> > now concerned about the built-up post....how did he interface it with
> > the basement floor? So it can wick moisture & rot?
>
> I think this was done well, see photo here (
> http://i18.tinypic.com/4h86tfk.jpg ).
>
> > Let's see what your SE says......I would suggest slapping two more
> > 2x6's so you can get some header bearing under the area beyond the
> > notches.
>
> That's kind of what I was thinking.
>
> > As for the joists...how about a piece of OSB sistered to the LVL (full
> > depth) & add some joist hangers...might want to jam a temporary supoprt
> > (2x4, floor to josit) under the joist while installing the
> > hangers.....use nails longer than the normal joist hanger nails so you
> > can get into the LVL
>
> If that's structurally sound, then great... we can all get out of this
> without too much trouble. The temporary wall is still in place so this
> should not be too difficult.
>
> > but really you should get the "fix" from your SE (& your GC should pay,
> > if there are any charges)
> >
> > cheers
> > Bob
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> - S

S-

Ooops! I missed the support wall in the first photo...that make me
feel a lot better as does the post base.detail.....I take back 1/2 of
my comments :)

Now the only thing troubling me is the notched beam end

Depending on the load & what your SE says, more support under the beam
end might be needed.

Per Bob M's comments......the 3/8 to 1/2 joist end gap will be taken up
by the joist hangers and an OSB fillers trip is overkill but if the GC
is going to shim them & the work will not be visible then I guess you
can forget about it.

cheers
Bob


Posted by Bob Morrison on December 29, 2006, 10:31 am
In a previous post soboko@gmail.com wrote...
> So the question is, do I have anything to be concerned about here? If
> there are issues how should I address them?
>

In general, I go along with BobK's suggestions. The only thing that gave
me pause was the (3) 2x posts and the notches. A couple of additional
2x's should fix the problem. I suggest that a Simpson LCE post cap be
added to connect the beam to the built-up post.

The 3/8"-1/2" gap doesn't bother me very much. The joist hangers will
take care of that problem as long as the joist is fully supported in the
hanger. It looks like a Simpson "LUS" type hanger was used. If the
situation concerns you, your contractor might consider using an "HUS"
series which has a longer support shoe for the joist (3" vs 1-3/4").

--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
Structural & Civil Engineering
Poulsbo WA
bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com

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