Question about plumber's responsibility for a leak that didn't show up right away - Page 2

> ...

> > If he does send me a bill, what do I do? =EF=BF=BDDo I just pay it with=

> > question? =EF=BF=BDPay it and give him the bill for the other repair wo=

> > necessitated by the leak? =EF=BF=BD...

> If you didn't discuss it at the time (of the repair), you pay the bill
> and go on.
> Since it was his work, he may have realized he did have a cold solder
> joint and not bill it but I'd not count on it after four years nor
> would I expect him to negate the bill once sent if it wasn't discussed
> at the time of the repair as noted.
> As for the access work repair cost, I'd not expect him to bear any of
> that cost at this time.
> --

>That's the background, now here's my question.
>Is there an implied warranty of some sort that covers concealed work
>and problems that don't immediately show up? I know new houses have
>warranties, and that a standard contract usually has a one year
>warranty covering the work, but this is an older house, and there
>wasn't a contract. In any event I don't think an entirely new
>bathroom plumbing system should leak from the supply lines in just a
>few years.

> On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:28:34 -0800 (PST), Handplanes
> (snip for brevity:)

>>That's the background, now here's my question.
>>Is there an implied warranty of some sort that covers concealed work
>>and problems that don't immediately show up? I know new houses have
>>warranties, and that a standard contract usually has a one year
>>warranty covering the work, but this is an older house, and there
>>wasn't a contract. In any event I don't think an entirely new
>>bathroom plumbing system should leak from the supply lines in just a
>>few years.

> I'm a renovations contractor in Alberta, Canada.
> Our renovations are done under written contract with a warranty of one
> year on work done and material provided. That's fairly standard
> here.
> Obviously if a client has a problem, I'm not going to be a stickler
> for the the one year limitation ... I'll use my best judgement, and
> I will err on the customers" side. It's just good business ... I
> tell my trades that when the contract is signed, I have made my
> profit ... what we are working for is the repeat and the referral.
> Most serious contractors do the same. It's the cheapest advertising
> we can buy.
> A verbal agreement is a contract ... you should have asked at the time
> the work was done ...even had him scrawl a guarantee on the bill.
> Similarly, when he did the repair, you should have asked whether he
> was doing it at his own expense or whether he intended to bill you and
> if so, how much.
> The only legal maxim I'm aware of that you can rely on is that you
> have a right to a "reasonable expectation the work and materials are
> suitable for the use intended".
> You should know that soldered joints will occasionally let go. There
> could have been the tiniest, tiniest pinhole crack weakening the
> soldered joint that four years of pressure finally worked through.
> No way he could have known or caught it when it happened.
> Four years is a long time .... I'd say it's a "goodwill issue". If
> you're a good customer or if he's a good guy, you'll be treated
> fairly. Your description sounds like a couple of hours maximum.
> In future, nail down the cost and the warranty in advance.
> Ken
>

> On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:28:34 -0800 (PST), Handplanes
> (snip for brevity:)

> >That's the background, now here's my question.
> >Is there an implied warranty of some sort that covers concealed work
> >and problems that don't immediately show up? =A0I know new houses have
> >warranties, and that a standard contract usually has a one year
> >warranty covering the work, but this is an older house, and there
> >wasn't a contract. =A0In any event I don't think an entirely new
> >bathroom plumbing system should leak from the supply lines in just a
> >few years.

> I'm a renovations contractor in Alberta, Canada. =A0
> Our renovations are done under written contract with a warranty of one
> year on work done and material provided. =A0 =A0 That's fairly standard
> here. =A0
> Obviously if a client has a problem, =A0I'm not going to be a stickler
> for the the one year limitation ... =A0 I'll use my best judgement, and
> I will err on the customers" side. =A0 =A0It's just good business ... I
> tell my trades that when the contract is signed, =A0I have made my
> profit ... what we are working for is the repeat and the referral.
> Most serious contractors do the same. =A0It's the cheapest advertising
> we can buy.
> A verbal agreement is a contract ... you should have asked at the time
> the work was done ...even had him scrawl =A0a guarantee on the bill. =A0 =

> Similarly, =A0when he did the repair, =A0you should have asked whether he
> was doing it at his own expense or whether he intended to bill you and
> if so, how much. =A0 =A0
> The only legal maxim I'm aware of that you can rely on is that you
> have a right to a "reasonable expectation the work and materials are
> suitable for the use intended".
> You should know that soldered joints will occasionally let go. =A0There
> could have been the tiniest, tiniest pinhole crack weakening =A0the
> soldered joint that four years of pressure finally =A0worked through.
> No way he could have known or caught it when it happened.
> Four years is a long time =A0.... =A0I'd say it's a "goodwill issue". =A0=

> you're a good customer or if he's a good guy, =A0you'll be treated
> fairly. =A0 =A0 Your description sounds like a couple of hours maximum.
> In future, =A0nail down the cost and the warranty in advance. =A0
> Ken =A0

> Hi. I very recently noticed some mold in the den under the master
> bathroom. The mold was up by the ceiling where it meets the wall -
> tthe tub is above that so I knew it wasn't good. The bathroom above
> was remodeled about four years ago and all of the plumbing was
> replaced.
> I opened up the ceiling and the sheetrock was wet and moldy, so I cut
> it out, cleaned up the mold as best I could, located what was leaking
> and called the plumber.
> There was a copper T in the riser supplying the sink branch. The T
> was leaking where the horizontal line came in. I don't know how long
> the leak had been dripping, but for the amount of green crud on the
> outside of the T it must have been for a while. You could see that
> the solder at the T was rough and not smooth like it usually is when
> the solder and fitting are hot enough.
> The plumber came out and took a look and agreed that it was the T that
> leaked and there was no other damage that caused the leak. When the
> remodeling work was done I did not have a contract with the plumber,
> it was a verbal agreement (I know that's not recommended!) and
> everything went fine.
> That's the background, now here's my question.
> Is there an implied warranty of some sort that covers concealed work
> and problems that don't immediately show up? I know new houses have
> warranties, and that a standard contract usually has a one year
> warranty covering the work, but this is an older house, and there
> wasn't a contract. In any event I don't think an entirely new
> bathroom plumbing system should leak from the supply lines in just a
> few years.
> So, who's responsible for the repair costs? I'm not particularly
> concerned about the sheetrock, painting and the few tiles I had to
> remove at the tub to access the plumbing. It's more of a question of
> whether the plumber should take care of the plumbing repair on his
> dime as it was his work that caused the problem.
> It was due to an honest mistake - his mistake - and I know he is a
> good plumber. I thought that he would take care of the repair since
> his work caused the problem and I would not be billed. In return I
> would not bill him for the damaged sheetrock, painting and tile that
> had to be removed as I have a relative that does general construction
> and handyman work for me. In mentioning the situation to some friends
> they said that the plumber would probably hit me with a hefty bill for
> the plumbing repair.
> If he does send me a bill, what do I do? Do I just pay it without
> question? Pay it and give him the bill for the other repair work
> necessitated by the leak? I really have no idea what legal area this
> would fall under and whether there is some standard procedure for a
> concealed problem showing up a few years down the road.
> I have no intention of taking this to a lawyer or small claims court,
> and I live in NY if anyone knows the specifics in my state. I am just
> curious what people's opinions are on this type of thing and if
> someone could provide some guidance on how to approach the topic with
> the plumber if he does in fact send me a bill.
> Any and all replies will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
> Nick