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Posted by on January 17, 2009, 10:31 am
> > Hi. =A0I very recently noticed some mold in the den under the master
> > bathroom. =A0The mold was up by the ceiling where it meets the wall -
> > tthe tub is above that so I knew it wasn't good. =A0The bathroom above
> > was remodeled about four years ago and all of the plumbing was
> > replaced.
> > I opened up the ceiling and the sheetrock was wet and moldy, so I cut
> > it out, cleaned up the mold as best I could, located what was leaking
> > and called the plumber.
> > There was a copper T in the riser supplying the sink branch. =A0The T
> > was leaking where the horizontal line came in. =A0I don't know how long
> > the leak had been dripping, but for the amount of green crud on the
> > outside of the T it must have been for a while. =A0You could see that
> > the solder at the T was rough and not smooth like it usually is when
> > the solder and fitting are hot enough.
> > The plumber came out and took a look and agreed that it was the T that
> > leaked and there was no other damage that caused the leak. =A0When the
> > remodeling work was done I did not have a contract with the plumber,
> > it was a verbal agreement (I know that's not recommended!) and
> > everything went fine.
> > That's the background, now here's my question.
> > Is there an implied warranty of some sort that covers concealed work
> > and problems that don't immediately show up? =A0I know new houses have
> > warranties, and that a standard contract usually has a one year
> > warranty covering the work, but this is an older house, and there
> > wasn't a contract. =A0In any event I don't think an entirely new
> > bathroom plumbing system should leak from the supply lines in just a
> > few years.
> > So, who's responsible for the repair costs? =A0I'm not particularly
> > concerned about the sheetrock, painting and the few tiles I had to
> > remove at the tub to access the plumbing. =A0It's more of a question of
> > whether the plumber should take care of the plumbing repair on his
> > dime as it was his work that caused the problem.
> > It was due to an honest mistake - his mistake - and I know he is a
> > good plumber. =A0I thought that he would take care of the repair since
> > his work caused the problem and I would not be billed. =A0In return I
> > would not bill him for the damaged sheetrock, painting and tile that
> > had to be removed as I have a relative that does general construction
> > and handyman work for me. =A0In mentioning the situation to some friend=
s
> > they said that the plumber would probably hit me with a hefty bill for
> > the plumbing repair.
> > If he does send me a bill, what do I do? =A0Do I just pay it without
> > question? =A0Pay it and give him the bill for the other repair work
> > necessitated by the leak? =A0I really have no idea what legal area this
> > would fall under and whether there is some standard procedure for a
> > concealed problem showing up a few years down the road.
> > I have no intention of taking this to a lawyer or small claims court,
> > and I live in NY if anyone knows the specifics in my state. =A0I am jus=
t
> > curious what people's opinions are on this type of thing and if
> > someone could provide some guidance on how to approach the topic with
> > the plumber if he does in fact send me a bill.
> > Any and all replies will be greatly appreciated. =A0Thanks.
> > Nick
> Two things in general. =A0First off, four years is WAY too long for him
> to cover the work under any warranty, unless he's just a good guy and
> it was a quick fix. =A0Where would you stop, 4 years; 10 years; 20
> years; life of the house? =A0Things happen. =A0Things break. =A0Deal with
> it.
> Second, even if there's a problem, you don't have a gripe with the
> plumber. =A0It was a big remodel. =A0Call the GC. =A0The GC is the only
> who's responsible for everything. =A0If you were the GC, then go yell at
> yourself.- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
There's no mention of a GC involved, it was a verbal agreement. I
agree, the plummer is pretty much off the hook in this situation. But
copper connections should last a lot longer than 4 years.
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Posted by on January 17, 2009, 12:33 pm
On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 07:31:53 -0800 (PST), jimbobmitchell@verizon.net
wrote:
>> > Hi. I very recently noticed some mold in the den under the master
>> > bathroom. The mold was up by the ceiling where it meets the wall -
>> > tthe tub is above that so I knew it wasn't good. The bathroom above
>> > was remodeled about four years ago and all of the plumbing was
>> > replaced.
>> > I opened up the ceiling and the sheetrock was wet and moldy, so I cut
>> > it out, cleaned up the mold as best I could, located what was leaking
>> > and called the plumber.
>> > There was a copper T in the riser supplying the sink branch. The T
>> > was leaking where the horizontal line came in. I don't know how long
>> > the leak had been dripping, but for the amount of green crud on the
>> > outside of the T it must have been for a while. You could see that
>> > the solder at the T was rough and not smooth like it usually is when
>> > the solder and fitting are hot enough.
>> > The plumber came out and took a look and agreed that it was the T that
>> > leaked and there was no other damage that caused the leak. When the
>> > remodeling work was done I did not have a contract with the plumber,
>> > it was a verbal agreement (I know that's not recommended!) and
>> > everything went fine.
>> > That's the background, now here's my question.
>> > Is there an implied warranty of some sort that covers concealed work
>> > and problems that don't immediately show up? I know new houses have
>> > warranties, and that a standard contract usually has a one year
>> > warranty covering the work, but this is an older house, and there
>> > wasn't a contract. In any event I don't think an entirely new
>> > bathroom plumbing system should leak from the supply lines in just a
>> > few years.
>> > So, who's responsible for the repair costs? I'm not particularly
>> > concerned about the sheetrock, painting and the few tiles I had to
>> > remove at the tub to access the plumbing. It's more of a question of
>> > whether the plumber should take care of the plumbing repair on his
>> > dime as it was his work that caused the problem.
>> > It was due to an honest mistake - his mistake - and I know he is a
>> > good plumber. I thought that he would take care of the repair since
>> > his work caused the problem and I would not be billed. In return I
>> > would not bill him for the damaged sheetrock, painting and tile that
>> > had to be removed as I have a relative that does general construction
>> > and handyman work for me. In mentioning the situation to some friends
>> > they said that the plumber would probably hit me with a hefty bill for
>> > the plumbing repair.
>> > If he does send me a bill, what do I do? Do I just pay it without
>> > question? Pay it and give him the bill for the other repair work
>> > necessitated by the leak? I really have no idea what legal area this
>> > would fall under and whether there is some standard procedure for a
>> > concealed problem showing up a few years down the road.
>> > I have no intention of taking this to a lawyer or small claims court,
>> > and I live in NY if anyone knows the specifics in my state. I am just
>> > curious what people's opinions are on this type of thing and if
>> > someone could provide some guidance on how to approach the topic with
>> > the plumber if he does in fact send me a bill.
>> > Any and all replies will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
>> > Nick
>> Two things in general. First off, four years is WAY too long for him
>> to cover the work under any warranty, unless he's just a good guy and
>> it was a quick fix. Where would you stop, 4 years; 10 years; 20
>> years; life of the house? Things happen. Things break. Deal with
>> it.
>> Second, even if there's a problem, you don't have a gripe with the
>> plumber. It was a big remodel. Call the GC. The GC is the only
>> who's responsible for everything. If you were the GC, then go yell at
>> yourself.- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -
>There's no mention of a GC involved, it was a verbal agreement. I
>agree, the plummer is pretty much off the hook in this situation. But
>copper connections should last a lot longer than 4 years.
The plumber came.
He fixed it
He did not leave a bill.
Chances are excellent he's a "good guy" and stood behind his work -
If the OP had not been a "good guy" and had bitched and complained and
threatened, the plumber may have done otherwise.
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Posted by Handplanes on January 19, 2009, 12:12 pm
Hi. Thanks for all of the replies. I really appreciate the input -
even the one where somebody called me an ass!
To address some of the replies to my original post.
I understand that you should always have a contract, but I also
understand that the contract is only as good as the people who stand
behind it. The people that stand behind there work don't do it
because of a piece of a paper - they do it out of pride and a sense of
fairness.
There was no GC. When I redid the bathroom I hired the plumber and
the electrician - that's it. I've never used another electrician in
over twenty years, and the plumber has more or less been used
exclusively for a similar amount of time. I will be redoing my
kitchen and adding a bathroom on the first floor this year, and
redoing the laundry room within the next month or so. The following
year I will do the third floor bathroom. I pointed all of this out to
the new bosses when they first came to inspect the leak.
I fully understand that four years is a long time to expect warranty
coverage. I did not ask for warranty coverage and I am willing to
compromise. All of the demo, protection, drywall, redone insulation
and tile work would certainly cost more than the plumbing repair, and
I am not at this time expecting reimbursement for that work.
The leak had to get repaired regardless, and I would like to use the
"known quantities" again, so I guess in a way this has turned into a
test of whether the new bosses will stand behind their work. I think
that Ken from Alberta pretty much summed up my feelings on how I would
like a contractor to view their work. That attitude is what keeps
people coming back for more.
So here's a bit more information and an update.
I have used this plumber on a bunch of projects over the years. The
guy who does the actual work, I'll call him Ted, is a known quantity -
he's a character. He's definitely a paranoid, semi-delusional guy of
67. He works alone most of the time, and he does good work and is
easy to get along with, so I really don't care about his other
issues. In the time since I first worked with him 23 years ago, his
boss retired and sold the company, and the next boss retired and his
nephew-in-law and a buddy took over the company. This is what has
presented some issues. Ted is not the issue, it's the new bosses and
what I should expect from them.
When I wrote the original post the plumber had not completed the
repair. The new bosses came over to take a look at the problem after
I had opened it up, and we were all in agreement that the leak was due
to a faulty soldered joint at the T off of the hot water riser. The
pipes never froze, no wayward screw or nail hit the pipe, and I
certainly don't have fat women in the tub! The new bosses sent Ted
over first thing in the morning to take a crack at the repair. He
looked at it, didn't think there was enough access and he was afraid
of setting the insulation on fire, so he begged out and called the
bosses to come do it. That was the last I saw of Ted on this repair.
The two bosses showed up, tried resoldering the joint, that didn't
work, cut out the T, sweated some barbed PEX fittings onto the copper
pipe and used crimp rings to join the PEX. When we turned on the
water, it leaked, so they cut the PEX, installed a barbed coupling and
redid the crimp rings. It leaked again.
At this point the two bosses had been there for near on 6 hours. The
access was restricted so the time is a bit misleading. One boss was
definitely working, the other guy was just standing around as there
was nothing he could do. The working boss was getting frustrated and
I could see that he would either damage something or hurt himself if
the frustration level increased much. His crimp ring tool's handle
was hitting the tub and he couldn't have the handle perpendicular to
the PEX so the crimp rings were moving around a bit and the PEX wasn't
fully seated on the sweated barbed fitting.
At this point he starts telling me that more tile has to be removed.
Some wall tile above the tub and more tile off to the side. All of
the joints were under the tub, and I was much less than thrilled to
hear that he wanted to do more damage - in my opinion, very
unnecessary damage. As it was near the end of the day, I told him
that we should knock off and pick it up tomorrow and that I would
think about opening up the tile. At the end of the day, the water was
off in the bathroom.
I did a little research on the net and saw there were some
alternatives - side-crimp tools and PEX hose-clamp-type rings that are
tightened by hand. I also felt that we could probably do the crimp
rings with the access as it was, and I would not be removing anymore
tile. When I called the plumber the next day, they were already on
another job, so I asked if I they'd mind if I cut off the bad crimp
rings to get us a head start for when he showed up, and he said that
was fine. I love my Dremel.
The plumber still hadn't shown up by noon, so I beeped him and he got
back to me an hour later. I was the frustrated one now, and I asked
if I could borrow his crimp ring tool and some rings and a foot and a
half of PEX as I felt I could work with the access as it was and I
wanted the bathroom back online - no problem, and he dropped them off.
An hour and a half later it was done. I redid almost all of the PEX,
except for one piece, and used some tricks I've picked up over the
years. I used a hair dryer to heat up the PEX, bent it by hand, then
cooled it off with cold water so it would stay bent, and attached the
most difficult access crimp ring first (I'd mentioned that to the
working boss while he was working and he ignored the advice, which I
understand as he does not really know me from a hole in the wall).
I've finished patching and taping the drywall ceiling below and will
start on making the removed tile into a hidden access panel in case I
ever have to get in there again.
And my final questions on the subject.
Now, that's the whole situation. If you were in my situation, would
you expect to get billed for the time even though you finished the
work yourself? Would you just pay the bill, negotiate, or refuse to
pay?
Nick
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Posted by hallerb@aol.com on January 19, 2009, 12:20 pm
> Hi. =EF=BF=BDThanks for all of the replies. =EF=BF=BDI really appreciate =
the input -
> even the one where somebody called me an ass!
> To address some of the replies to my original post.
> I understand that you should always have a contract, but I also
> understand that the contract is only as good as the people who stand
> behind it. =EF=BF=BDThe people that stand behind there work don't do it
> because of a piece of a paper - they do it out of pride and a sense of
> fairness.
> There was no GC. =EF=BF=BDWhen I redid the bathroom I hired the plumber a=
nd
> the electrician - that's it. =EF=BF=BDI've never used another electrician=
in
> over twenty years, and the plumber has more or less been used
> exclusively for a similar amount of time. =EF=BF=BDI will be redoing my
> kitchen and adding a bathroom on the first floor this year, and
> redoing the laundry room within the next month or so. =EF=BF=BDThe follow=
ing
> year I will do the third floor bathroom. =EF=BF=BDI pointed all of this o=
ut to
> the new bosses when they first came to inspect the leak.
> I fully understand that four years is a long time to expect warranty
> coverage. =EF=BF=BDI did not ask for warranty coverage and I am willing t=
o
> compromise. =EF=BF=BDAll of the demo, protection, drywall, redone insulat=
ion
> and tile work would certainly cost more than the plumbing repair, and
> I am not at this time expecting reimbursement for that work.
> The leak had to get repaired regardless, and I would like to use the
> "known quantities" again, so I guess in a way this has turned into a
> test of whether the new bosses will stand behind their work. =EF=BF=BDI t=
hink
> that Ken from Alberta pretty much summed up my feelings on how I would
> like a contractor to view their work. =EF=BF=BDThat attitude is what keep=
s
> people coming back for more.
> So here's a bit more information and an update.
> I have used this plumber on a bunch of projects over the years. =EF=BF=BD=
The
> guy who does the actual work, I'll call him Ted, is a known quantity -
> he's a character. =EF=BF=BDHe's definitely a paranoid, semi-delusional gu=
y of
> 67. =EF=BF=BDHe works alone most of the time, and he does good work and i=
s
> easy to get along with, so I really don't care about his other
> issues. =EF=BF=BDIn the time since I first worked with him 23 years ago, =
his
> boss retired and sold the company, and the next boss retired and his
> nephew-in-law and a buddy took over the company. =EF=BF=BDThis is what ha=
s
> presented some issues. =EF=BF=BDTed is not the issue, it's the new bosses=
and
> what I should expect from them.
> When I wrote the original post the plumber had not completed the
> repair. =EF=BF=BDThe new bosses came over to take a look at the problem a=
fter
> I had opened it up, and we were all in agreement that the leak was due
> to a faulty soldered joint at the T off of the hot water riser. =EF=BF=BD=
The
> pipes never froze, no wayward screw or nail hit the pipe, and I
> certainly don't have fat women in the tub! =EF=BF=BDThe new bosses sent T=
ed
> over first thing in the morning to take a crack at the repair. =EF=BF=BDH=
e
> looked at it, didn't think there was enough access and he was afraid
> of setting the insulation on fire, so he begged out and called the
> bosses to come do it. =EF=BF=BDThat was the last I saw of Ted on this rep=
air.
> The two bosses showed up, tried resoldering the joint, that didn't
> work, cut out the T, sweated some barbed PEX fittings onto the copper
> pipe and used crimp rings to join the PEX. =EF=BF=BDWhen we turned on the
> water, it leaked, so they cut the PEX, installed a barbed coupling and
> redid the crimp rings. =EF=BF=BDIt leaked again.
> At this point the two bosses had been there for near on 6 hours. =EF=BF=
=BDThe
> access was restricted so the time is a bit misleading. =EF=BF=BDOne boss =
was
> definitely working, the other guy was just standing around as there
> was nothing he could do. =EF=BF=BDThe working boss was getting frustrated=
and
> I could see that he would either damage something or hurt himself if
> the frustration level increased much. =EF=BF=BDHis crimp ring tool's hand=
le
> was hitting the tub and he couldn't have the handle perpendicular to
> the PEX so the crimp rings were moving around a bit and the PEX wasn't
> fully seated on the sweated barbed fitting.
> At this point he starts telling me that more tile has to be removed.
> Some wall tile above the tub and more tile off to the side. =EF=BF=BDAll =
of
> the joints were under the tub, and I was much less than thrilled to
> hear that he wanted to do more damage - in my opinion, very
> unnecessary damage. =EF=BF=BDAs it was near the end of the day, I told hi=
m
> that we should knock off and pick it up tomorrow and that I would
> think about opening up the tile. =EF=BF=BDAt the end of the day, the wate=
r was
> off in the bathroom.
> I did a little research on the net and saw there were some
> alternatives - side-crimp tools and PEX hose-clamp-type rings that are
> tightened by hand. =EF=BF=BDI also felt that we could probably do the cri=
mp
> rings with the access as it was, and I would not be removing anymore
> tile. =EF=BF=BDWhen I called the plumber the next day, they were already =
on
> another job, so I asked if I they'd mind if I cut off the bad crimp
> rings to get us a head start for when he showed up, and he said that
> was fine. =EF=BF=BDI love my Dremel.
> The plumber still hadn't shown up by noon, so I beeped him and he got
> back to me an hour later. =EF=BF=BDI was the frustrated one now, and I as=
ked
> if I could borrow his crimp ring tool and some rings and a foot and a
> half of PEX as I felt I could work with the access as it was and I
> wanted the bathroom back online - no problem, and he dropped them off.
> An hour and a half later it was done. =EF=BF=BDI redid almost all of the =
PEX,
> except for one piece, and used some tricks I've picked up over the
> years. =EF=BF=BDI used a hair dryer to heat up the PEX, bent it by hand, =
then
> cooled it off with cold water so it would stay bent, and attached the
> most difficult access crimp ring first (I'd mentioned that to the
> working boss while he was working and he ignored the advice, which I
> understand as he does not really know me from a hole in the wall).
> I've finished patching and taping the drywall ceiling below and will
> start on making the removed tile into a hidden access panel in case I
> ever have to get in there again.
> And my final questions on the subject.
> Now, that's the whole situation. =EF=BF=BDIf you were in my situation, wo=
uld
> you expect to get billed for the time even though you finished the
> work yourself? =EF=BF=BDWould you just pay the bill, negotiate, or refuse=
to
> pay?
> Nick
under these conditions it must be free!!
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Posted by on January 20, 2009, 10:42 am
> > Hi. Thanks for all of the replies. I really appreciate the input -
> > even the one where somebody called me an ass!
> > To address some of the replies to my original post.
> > I understand that you should always have a contract, but I also
> > understand that the contract is only as good as the people who stand
> > behind it. The people that stand behind there work don't do it
> > because of a piece of a paper - they do it out of pride and a sense of
> > fairness.
That's a very false generalization. Consider this. After a job
that was supposed to cost $500, you're presented with a bill for
$1500. Or the plumber's helper falls off a ladder and winds up in the
hospital. Would you rather have a signed contract in your hand that
says the job is going to cost $500 and that the contractor carries
insurance? Or would you rather have nothing? With the contract, you
send him a check for $500 and if he doesn't like it, he can take you
to small claims. With a written contract, you're in an excellent
position to defent yourself, if necessary.
Also, having it in writting protects both parties. It's not unusual
for two parties to have different recollections of exactly what the
scope of the work was, what was included, what was not, etc. Three
months later, when the bill comes, who's to say what each party said,
who understood what, etc. You want it in writing not because you
don't trust the other party, but to eliminate routine
misunderstandings.
> > There was no GC. When I redid the bathroom I hired the plumber and
> > the electrician - that's it. I've never used another electrician in
> > over twenty years, and the plumber has more or less been used
> > exclusively for a similar amount of time. I will be redoing my
> > kitchen and adding a bathroom on the first floor this year, and
> > redoing the laundry room within the next month or so. The following
> > year I will do the third floor bathroom. I pointed all of this out to
> > the new bosses when they first came to inspect the leak.
> > I fully understand that four years is a long time to expect warranty
> > coverage. I did not ask for warranty coverage and I am willing to
> > compromise. All of the demo, protection, drywall, redone insulation
> > and tile work would certainly cost more than the plumbing repair, and
> > I am not at this time expecting reimbursement for that work.
> > The leak had to get repaired regardless, and I would like to use the
> > "known quantities" again, so I guess in a way this has turned into a
> > test of whether the new bosses will stand behind their work. I think
> > that Ken from Alberta pretty much summed up my feelings on how I would
> > like a contractor to view their work. That attitude is what keeps
> > people coming back for more.
> > So here's a bit more information and an update.
> > I have used this plumber on a bunch of projects over the years. The
> > guy who does the actual work, I'll call him Ted, is a known quantity -
> > he's a character. He's definitely a paranoid, semi-delusional guy of
> > 67. He works alone most of the time, and he does good work and is
> > easy to get along with, so I really don't care about his other
> > issues. In the time since I first worked with him 23 years ago, his
> > boss retired and sold the company, and the next boss retired and his
> > nephew-in-law and a buddy took over the company. This is what has
> > presented some issues. Ted is not the issue, it's the new bosses and
> > what I should expect from them.
> > When I wrote the original post the plumber had not completed the
> > repair. The new bosses came over to take a look at the problem after
> > I had opened it up, and we were all in agreement that the leak was due
> > to a faulty soldered joint at the T off of the hot water riser. The
> > pipes never froze, no wayward screw or nail hit the pipe, and I
> > certainly don't have fat women in the tub! The new bosses sent Ted
> > over first thing in the morning to take a crack at the repair. He
> > looked at it, didn't think there was enough access and he was afraid
> > of setting the insulation on fire, so he begged out and called the
> > bosses to come do it. That was the last I saw of Ted on this repair.
> > The two bosses showed up, tried resoldering the joint, that didn't
> > work, cut out the T, sweated some barbed PEX fittings onto the copper
> > pipe and used crimp rings to join the PEX. When we turned on the
> > water, it leaked, so they cut the PEX, installed a barbed coupling and
> > redid the crimp rings. It leaked again.
> > At this point the two bosses had been there for near on 6 hours. The
> > access was restricted so the time is a bit misleading. One boss was
> > definitely working, the other guy was just standing around as there
> > was nothing he could do. The working boss was getting frustrated and
> > I could see that he would either damage something or hurt himself if
> > the frustration level increased much. His crimp ring tool's handle
> > was hitting the tub and he couldn't have the handle perpendicular to
> > the PEX so the crimp rings were moving around a bit and the PEX wasn't
> > fully seated on the sweated barbed fitting.
> > At this point he starts telling me that more tile has to be removed.
> > Some wall tile above the tub and more tile off to the side. All of
> > the joints were under the tub, and I was much less than thrilled to
> > hear that he wanted to do more damage - in my opinion, very
> > unnecessary damage. As it was near the end of the day, I told him
> > that we should knock off and pick it up tomorrow and that I would
> > think about opening up the tile. At the end of the day, the water was
> > off in the bathroom.
> > I did a little research on the net and saw there were some
> > alternatives - side-crimp tools and PEX hose-clamp-type rings that are
> > tightened by hand. I also felt that we could probably do the crimp
> > rings with the access as it was, and I would not be removing anymore
> > tile. When I called the plumber the next day, they were already on
> > another job, so I asked if I they'd mind if I cut off the bad crimp
> > rings to get us a head start for when he showed up, and he said that
> > was fine. I love my Dremel.
> > The plumber still hadn't shown up by noon, so I beeped him and he got
> > back to me an hour later. I was the frustrated one now, and I asked
> > if I could borrow his crimp ring tool and some rings and a foot and a
> > half of PEX as I felt I could work with the access as it was and I
> > wanted the bathroom back online - no problem, and he dropped them off.
> > An hour and a half later it was done. I redid almost all of the PEX,
> > except for one piece, and used some tricks I've picked up over the
> > years. I used a hair dryer to heat up the PEX, bent it by hand, then
> > cooled it off with cold water so it would stay bent, and attached the
> > most difficult access crimp ring first (I'd mentioned that to the
> > working boss while he was working and he ignored the advice, which I
> > understand as he does not really know me from a hole in the wall).
> > I've finished patching and taping the drywall ceiling below and will
> > start on making the removed tile into a hidden access panel in case I
> > ever have to get in there again.
> > And my final questions on the subject.
> > Now, that's the whole situation. If you were in my situation, would
> > you expect to get billed for the time even though you finished the
> > work yourself? Would you just pay the bill, negotiate, or refuse to
> > pay?
> > Nick
> under these conditions it must be free!!- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
I'd refuse to pay. And I wouldn't have these clowns back in the
house again, regardless of whether you pay or not. And I'd say you
made a mistake by not discussing what they would charge, if anything,
BEFORE you let them do 6 hours of work. After they inspected it and
determined it was a bad solder joint, I would have said "Since it's a
bad solder joint, will you repair it for no charge?" And if they said
no, then I would have done it myself. Or if it was something I dind't
think I could do and wanted to use them for this job, I would
definitely have gotten a fixed price up front, not let them go to work
not knowing how many hours it would take or if I was going to pay.
Butch up dude!
|
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| Similar Threads | Posted | | responsibility | May 24, 2009, 3:48 pm |
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> > bathroom. =A0The mold was up by the ceiling where it meets the wall -
> > tthe tub is above that so I knew it wasn't good. =A0The bathroom above
> > was remodeled about four years ago and all of the plumbing was
> > replaced.
> > I opened up the ceiling and the sheetrock was wet and moldy, so I cut
> > it out, cleaned up the mold as best I could, located what was leaking
> > and called the plumber.
> > There was a copper T in the riser supplying the sink branch. =A0The T
> > was leaking where the horizontal line came in. =A0I don't know how long
> > the leak had been dripping, but for the amount of green crud on the
> > outside of the T it must have been for a while. =A0You could see that
> > the solder at the T was rough and not smooth like it usually is when
> > the solder and fitting are hot enough.
> > The plumber came out and took a look and agreed that it was the T that
> > leaked and there was no other damage that caused the leak. =A0When the
> > remodeling work was done I did not have a contract with the plumber,
> > it was a verbal agreement (I know that's not recommended!) and
> > everything went fine.
> > That's the background, now here's my question.
> > Is there an implied warranty of some sort that covers concealed work
> > and problems that don't immediately show up? =A0I know new houses have
> > warranties, and that a standard contract usually has a one year
> > warranty covering the work, but this is an older house, and there
> > wasn't a contract. =A0In any event I don't think an entirely new
> > bathroom plumbing system should leak from the supply lines in just a
> > few years.
> > So, who's responsible for the repair costs? =A0I'm not particularly
> > concerned about the sheetrock, painting and the few tiles I had to
> > remove at the tub to access the plumbing. =A0It's more of a question of
> > whether the plumber should take care of the plumbing repair on his
> > dime as it was his work that caused the problem.
> > It was due to an honest mistake - his mistake - and I know he is a
> > good plumber. =A0I thought that he would take care of the repair since
> > his work caused the problem and I would not be billed. =A0In return I
> > would not bill him for the damaged sheetrock, painting and tile that
> > had to be removed as I have a relative that does general construction
> > and handyman work for me. =A0In mentioning the situation to some friend=