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Posted by ransley on December 4, 2008, 11:53 am
> > You mean you went with an 82% unit, right. My installer tried to talk
> > me out of condensing, in fact 90% still do. They key is to get what
> > works. Condensing furnaces have been a non problem issue for at least
> > 10-15 years, condensing boilers at least 6 years, condensing Oil
> > boilers are new, but furnaces have been out a long time, its up to you
> > to learn facts. Bottom line condensing have a minimum savings of 12%,
> > no honest study that reflects true energy price increases and future
> > trends will show non condensing best.
> No, I went with a Lennox Elite that is ~92% AFUE rather than the top of
> the line ~95% unit. =A0Both are condensing designs. =A0The difference is
> that mine has a single speed blower motor and, I believe, a two-stage
> gas valve. =A0I haven't checked the specs lately, but at this time (8
> years ago) the top of the line Lennox had a variable speed blower motor
> and a variable flow gas valve. =A0Word was that both were causing problem=
s
> at the time (again, 2000 era).
Yes the GE VSDC motor was an issue and still might be, even with a
redesign by moving the electronic to keep them cooler, I have a Lennox
like yours at a location its a good unit and efficent. If you get VSDC
the 10 yr warranty is necessary.
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Posted by Voyager on December 4, 2008, 9:32 pm
ransley wrote:
>>> You mean you went with an 82% unit, right. My installer tried to talk
>>> me out of condensing, in fact 90% still do. They key is to get what
>>> works. Condensing furnaces have been a non problem issue for at least
>>> 10-15 years, condensing boilers at least 6 years, condensing Oil
>>> boilers are new, but furnaces have been out a long time, its up to you
>>> to learn facts. Bottom line condensing have a minimum savings of 12%,
>>> no honest study that reflects true energy price increases and future
>>> trends will show non condensing best.
>> No, I went with a Lennox Elite that is ~92% AFUE rather than the top of
>> the line ~95% unit. Both are condensing designs. The difference is
>> that mine has a single speed blower motor and, I believe, a two-stage
>> gas valve. I haven't checked the specs lately, but at this time (8
>> years ago) the top of the line Lennox had a variable speed blower motor
>> and a variable flow gas valve. Word was that both were causing problems
>> at the time (again, 2000 era).
>
> Yes the GE VSDC motor was an issue and still might be, even with a
> redesign by moving the electronic to keep them cooler, I have a Lennox
> like yours at a location its a good unit and efficent. If you get VSDC
> the 10 yr warranty is necessary.
I figured at a lost of only 2% AFUE, it was worth it to avoid the
problems and stay with the slightly less efficient, yet apparently
vastly more reliable model.
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Posted by ransley on December 5, 2008, 8:41 am
> ransley wrote:
> >>> You mean you went with an 82% unit, right. My installer tried to talk
> >>> me out of condensing, in fact 90% still do. They key is to get what
> >>> works. Condensing furnaces have been a non problem issue for at least
> >>> 10-15 years, condensing boilers at least 6 years, condensing Oil
> >>> boilers are new, but furnaces have been out a long time, its up to yo=
u
> >>> to learn facts. Bottom line condensing have a minimum savings of 12%,
> >>> no honest study that reflects true energy price increases and future
> >>> trends will show non condensing best.
> >> No, I went with a Lennox Elite that is ~92% AFUE rather than the top o=
f
> >> the line ~95% unit. =A0Both are condensing designs. =A0The difference =
is
> >> that mine has a single speed blower motor and, I believe, a two-stage
> >> gas valve. =A0I haven't checked the specs lately, but at this time (8
> >> years ago) the top of the line Lennox had a variable speed blower moto=
r
> >> and a variable flow gas valve. =A0Word was that both were causing prob=
lems
> >> at the time (again, 2000 era).
> > Yes the GE VSDC motor was an issue and still might be, even with a
> > redesign by moving the electronic to keep them cooler, I have a Lennox
> > like yours at a location its a good unit and efficent. If you get VSDC
> > the 10 yr warranty is necessary.
> I figured at a lost of only 2% AFUE, it was worth it to avoid the
> problems and stay with the slightly less efficient, yet apparently
> vastly more reliable model.- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
I was looking at vsdc when I put mine in, luckily I didnt do it
either, but you say yours is 2 stage gas, so your blower is 2 speed,
and you must have the 2 stage stat, right, the blower must go go high
on high fire or the furnace exchanger overheats and its life is being
shortened alot. Listen for the blower kicking on high , Mine is set
for maybe 2-3f for when high fire is called for, you should get a
probe thermometer like a meat thermometer and insert it at the top of
the furnace to check the temp output, there is a specified range and
exceeding it really shortens the life of the aluminum heat exchanger,
I found my tech never checked mine and I was over the limit so I
lowered gas input. I think I have the same model as you and have a 2
stage thermostat. One thing that will fail is the heat exchanger its
aluminum or steel, not Stainless steel and I have heard they are
failing, keeping temp in the low recommended range will increase its
life alot.
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Posted by Wilma Fingerdo on December 2, 2008, 3:46 pm
Voyager wrote:
> ransley wrote:
>>> In a hydronic floor heat system, what is the best way to heat the water
>>> in the pex tubing?
>>> The initial study of the building design recommends a 16800 BTU 85%
>>> efficient boiler ($2000 US). I am hearing about possibly a more
>>> efficient way using two 90% efficient 60 gal water heaters.
>>> Can anyone make some suggestions to me? I live in Northern Colorado.
>>> Project description:
>>> 42 x 80 Pole style building, single level (metal siding + metal roof),
>>> 12 ft side walls
>>> FLOOR: 1 1/2" "Blue board" foam insulation on top of pea gravel - 5"
>>> concrete slab w/ pex tubing on 12" centers - 3 zones (3750' of 1/2"
>>> tubing in approx 250' runs
>>> INSULATION: Walls- R-26 -- Ceiling- R-38
>>> Thanks!
>> Is this a troll, 16800 Btu has to be a typo, you do mean 168000 I
>> hope I hope. You want efficency and you discuss 85% efficent boilers
>> when up to 98% are made !! What boiler are you looking at.
>> Tell us all who makes a 90% efficent tank water heater... Answer
>> nobody makes a 90% efficent fossil fuel water tank. Learn about EF-
>> Energy Factor ratings, and show us the tank. And a tank isnt designed
>> for long life but it truely aint efficent.
>
> You seem pretty sure of yourself ... for being wrong.
> http://www.americanwaterheater.com/products/pdf/lpg100.pdf
>
>
>> 1.5" Blueboard is R 7.5,, 1.5" foil faced Polyisocyanurate is R
>> 10.5 with an added radiant barrier, which is still not optimal R value
>> for concrete radiant heat.
>> Walls R 26, Ceiling R38, it sounds off. What is construction and
>> type of insulation You have lots a learnin to do wilma fingerdo, cause
>> someones lyin to you.
>
> More than one person is lying to Wilma.
Thanks for the reply, I mean 168000 btu. Its spray foam and cellulose
insulation. "Pole Barn" type construction.
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Posted by Art on December 3, 2008, 7:09 pm
Voyager wrote:
> ransley wrote:
>> Tell us all who makes a 90% efficent tank water heater... Answer
>> nobody makes a 90% efficent fossil fuel water tank. Learn about EF-
>> Energy Factor ratings, and show us the tank. And a tank isnt designed
>> for long life but it truely aint efficent.
>
> You seem pretty sure of yourself ... for being wrong.
> http://www.americanwaterheater.com/products/pdf/lpg100.pdf
>
How much does that puppy sell for?
--
Art
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> > me out of condensing, in fact 90% still do. They key is to get what
> > works. Condensing furnaces have been a non problem issue for at least
> > 10-15 years, condensing boilers at least 6 years, condensing Oil
> > boilers are new, but furnaces have been out a long time, its up to you
> > to learn facts. Bottom line condensing have a minimum savings of 12%,
> > no honest study that reflects true energy price increases and future
> > trends will show non condensing best.