Raising the ceiling in an existing barn

Posted by Avon_Jeepman on January 30, 2009, 10:59 pm

Hello,

I have a project that I have am researching before beginning. I have a
34' x 53' barn that has 7 foot ceilings on the main floor and I want to
raise them up to about 11 feet. The joists are nailed to the rafters on
the outside wall and also supported by a 2 beams that run down the middle
of the barn. These beams rest on posts that in turn are on concrete pads.

If I cut the joist off near the rafter and raise the floor up, the joists
will again be more than long enough (because the roof is radiused).

So far the best thing I have come up with is to do the ceiling in three
sections. The barn is about 34 feet wide and 53 feet long. Each
section would be 34 feet wide and just over 18 feet long. Maybe four
sections would be a little more manageable.

Anyway, I need photos and testimonies on past projects. I have quite a
bit of construction experience but I tend to be pretty anal with projects
like this so I want to be 100% confident before I start.

Thanks in advance,

DOC

MN, USA
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Posted by DanG on January 31, 2009, 7:40 am

Rafters place a large outward thrust on the outside walls. The
framing element that prevents pushing the outside walls apart are
the ceiling joists. You cannot cut them and move them up unless
you maintain the structure some other way. It can be done with a
structural ridge, buttresses, horizontal trusses. You absolutely
need a structural engineer before proceeding any further on this
plan.

You said the rafters are radiused which implies to me an arch
topped truss. This would be even more serious to contemplate.

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)
dgriff237@7cox.net

> Hello,
> I have a project that I have am researching before beginning. I
> have a
> 34' x 53' barn that has 7 foot ceilings on the main floor and I
> want to
> raise them up to about 11 feet. The joists are nailed to the
> rafters on
> the outside wall and also supported by a 2 beams that run down
> the middle
> of the barn. These beams rest on posts that in turn are on
> concrete pads.
> If I cut the joist off near the rafter and raise the floor up,
> the joists
> will again be more than long enough (because the roof is
> radiused).
> So far the best thing I have come up with is to do the ceiling
> in three
> sections. The barn is about 34 feet wide and 53 feet long.
> Each
> section would be 34 feet wide and just over 18 feet long. Maybe
> four
> sections would be a little more manageable.
> Anyway, I need photos and testimonies on past projects. I have
> quite a
> bit of construction experience but I tend to be pretty anal with
> projects
> like this so I want to be 100% confident before I start.
> Thanks in advance,
> DOC
> MN, USA
> -------------------------------------
> ##-----------------------------------------------##
> Delivered via http://www.thestuccocompany.com/
> Building Construction and Maintenance Forum
> Web and RSS access to your favorite newsgroup -
> alt.building.construction - 15495 messages and counting!
> ##-----------------------------------------------##

Posted by Avon_Jeepman on January 31, 2009, 9:51 am

Avon_Jeepman had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/construction/Re-Raising-the-ceiling-in-an-existing-barn-16289-.htm
:
Dan,

I have already talked to a structural Engineer and went over my drawings
with him. He told me that the structure will be sound when it is complete
and showed me where the forces are in the building. What I am looking for
is the actual processes that could be used to do this so I can determine
which method is best. I am assuming that I will need to aquire cribbing
and such, but I want to review several ways of lifting the ceiling before
I even think of starting.

Thanks,

DOC

MN, USA
-------------------------------------
DanG wrote:

> Rafters place a large outward thrust on the outside walls. The
> framing element that prevents pushing the outside walls apart are
> the ceiling joists. You cannot cut them and move them up unless
> you maintain the structure some other way. It can be done with a
> structural ridge, buttresses, horizontal trusses. You absolutely
> need a structural engineer before proceeding any further on this
> plan.

> You said the rafters are radiused which implies to me an arch
> topped truss. This would be even more serious to contemplate.

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Posted by DanG on January 31, 2009, 12:15 pm

If it is a matter of raising the weight, I raised a steel bar
joist roof over 6 feet once. I used Safway style scaffolding with
screw jacks pushing steel beams. It was all done manually, time
consuming but safe. Most house mover methods would require huge
amounts of cribbing, though quite doable. It was safe to be
above or below.
https://www.safway.com/Products/Shoring-Systems.asp

scroll to the bottom for pdf on selection, use, safety,
capacities, etc.

You've never said what the floor is made of. If it is
conventional, 10# per SF should give you a rough idea. If it is
something more than a conventional floor, you will need to make
better calculations. I would double expected loads for a safety
margin. These shores are made to hold a full wet concrete deck
and allow custom raising and lowering.

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)
dgriff237@7cox.net

> Avon_Jeepman had written this in response to
>

http://www.thestuccocompany.com/construction/Re-Raising-the-ceiling-in-an-existing-barn-16289-.htm

> :
> Dan,
> I have already talked to a structural Engineer and went over my
> drawings
> with him. He told me that the structure will be sound when it
> is complete
> and showed me where the forces are in the building. What I am
> looking for
> is the actual processes that could be used to do this so I can
> determine
> which method is best. I am assuming that I will need to aquire
> cribbing
> and such, but I want to review several ways of lifting the
> ceiling before
> I even think of starting.
> Thanks,
> DOC
> MN, USA
> -------------------------------------
> DanG wrote:

>> Rafters place a large outward thrust on the outside walls. The
>> framing element that prevents pushing the outside walls apart
>> are
>> the ceiling joists. You cannot cut them and move them up
>> unless
>> you maintain the structure some other way. It can be done with
>> a
>> structural ridge, buttresses, horizontal trusses. You
>> absolutely
>> need a structural engineer before proceeding any further on
>> this
>> plan.
>> You said the rafters are radiused which implies to me an arch
>> topped truss. This would be even more serious to contemplate.

> ##-----------------------------------------------##
> Delivered via http://www.thestuccocompany.com/
> Building Construction and Maintenance Forum
> Web and RSS access to your favorite newsgroup -
> alt.building.construction - 15498 messages and counting!
> ##-----------------------------------------------##

Posted by dpb on January 31, 2009, 12:43 pm

DanG wrote:

> If it is a matter of raising the weight, I raised a steel bar
> joist roof over 6 feet once. I used Safway style scaffolding with
> screw jacks pushing steel beams. It was all done manually, time
> consuming but safe. Most house mover methods would require huge
> amounts of cribbing, though quite doable. It was safe to be
> above or below.
> https://www.safway.com/Products/Shoring-Systems.asp

...

Yeah, there's the big bucks route I envisioned as being uneconomical.
What does a set of them go for considering what I paid just for
scaffolding??? :)

--

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