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Posted by DanG on January 31, 2009, 5:34 pm
It would be normal to lease the Safway scaffolding. Look under
concrete or contractor suppliers in the yellow pages.
--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)
dgriff237@7cox.net
> DanG wrote:
>> If it is a matter of raising the weight, I raised a steel bar
>> joist roof over 6 feet once. I used Safway style scaffolding
>> with screw jacks pushing steel beams. It was all done
>> manually, time consuming but safe. Most house mover methods
>> would require huge amounts of cribbing, though quite doable.
>> It was safe to be above or below.
>> https://www.safway.com/Products/Shoring-Systems.asp
> ...
> Yeah, there's the big bucks route I envisioned as being
> uneconomical. What does a set of them go for considering what I
> paid just for scaffolding??? :)
> --
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Posted by Avon_Jeepman on February 1, 2009, 11:51 am
Avon_Jeepman had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/construction/Re-Raising-the-ceiling-in-an-existing-barn-16301-.htm
:
Dan,
Thanks for the Safeway link. That is definately what I am looking for
since the project is probably a year away from being started (or
contracted out).
I have a granary that I am in the process of straightening and a goat barn
that is next on the list. After doing them I hopefully will have learned
things on a smaller scale that I can apply to the renovation of the barn.
In college I have done beam deflection calculations, sum of moments
calculations, and statics and strengths calculations. So I have a good
basic understanding of how a load can apply a force in several directions.
Just the same I plan on going back to the structural engineer after I
have an idea of how to actually lift the ceiling in the barn.
As a note on the side, I will add extra posts to support the ceiling if
the engineer thinks it will be benificial.
DOC
MN, USA
-------------------------------------
dpb wrote:
> DanG wrote:
>> If it is a matter of raising the weight, I raised a steel bar
>> joist roof over 6 feet once. I used Safway style scaffolding with
>> screw jacks pushing steel beams. It was all done manually, time
>> consuming but safe. Most house mover methods would require huge
>> amounts of cribbing, though quite doable. It was safe to be
>> above or below.
>> https://www.safway.com/Products/Shoring-Systems.asp
>> ...
> Yeah, there's the big bucks route I envisioned as being uneconomical.
> What does a set of them go for considering what I paid just for
> scaffolding??? :)
> --
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Posted by PeterD on January 31, 2009, 8:45 am
On 31 Jan 2009 03:59:16 GMT, Duanecounter_at_yahoo_dot_com@foo.com
(Avon_Jeepman) wrote:
>Hello,
>I have a project that I have am researching before beginning. I have a
>34' x 53' barn that has 7 foot ceilings on the main floor and I want to
>raise them up to about 11 feet. The joists are nailed to the rafters on
>the outside wall and also supported by a 2 beams that run down the middle
>of the barn. These beams rest on posts that in turn are on concrete pads.
>If I cut the joist off near the rafter and raise the floor up, the joists
>will again be more than long enough (because the roof is radiused).
>So far the best thing I have come up with is to do the ceiling in three
>sections. The barn is about 34 feet wide and 53 feet long. Each
>section would be 34 feet wide and just over 18 feet long. Maybe four
>sections would be a little more manageable.
>Anyway, I need photos and testimonies on past projects. I have quite a
>bit of construction experience but I tend to be pretty anal with projects
>like this so I want to be 100% confident before I start.
>Thanks in advance,
This sounds very difficult to do, at least safely. How are the roof
rafters done? Trusses, or what? You cut out that 'floor' you will
probably find it is what is holding the building together.
Why do you need 4 ft more headroom? That's not enough for a lift, for
example. Also, a garage with 7 ft headroom is not very tall at all,
I'd be worried that there are/were other problems that will come to
light later, and cause you all kninds of grief!
Get a good structural engineer and get professional advice. There is
no way someone in this group can tell you authoratively what do to...
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Posted by Avon_Jeepman on January 31, 2009, 9:45 am
Avon_Jeepman had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/construction/Re-Raising-the-ceiling-in-an-existing-barn-16290-.htm
:
The the rafters are 1x10 boards nailed together and cut at a radius. The
radius starts from the top of the cement blocks that the frame sits on and
continues up to the peak. So I guess the technical term would be that
they are laminated (just like laminated posts for my pole shed).
I want the extra headroom because I want to use the barn for my horses.
11 foot tall ceilings are recommended in case a horse would spoke and rear
up. With short ceilings the horse could hit his head and get injured.
Also taller ceilings are healthier because air moves better and moisture
rises so it vents out better. This is healthier for all animals.
A Structural Engineer has already told me that the floor being higher will
actually make the building stronger. Of course I plan to go back and make
sure I didn't forget something once I figure out the mechanics of doing
the actual lift. Raising the floor one section at a time leaves the end
walls and the remaining sections in place as well. That should retain the
structural integrety of the building.
Anyway, I am looking for input from someone that has actually done this or
seen this done before. There are several pictures online of barns like
mine where the entire ceiling has been removed on round roof barns like
mine. The website shows that customer now uses the barn for storing a
combine. Anyway, I just want to raise the floor up, not remove it
entirely and I am sure that there are many that have done that before.
Thanks,
DOC
MN, USA
-------------------------------------
PeterD wrote:
> On 31 Jan 2009 03:59:16 GMT, Duanecounter_at_yahoo_dot_com@foo.com
> (Avon_Jeepman) wrote:
>>Hello,
>>I have a project that I have am researching before beginning. I
>> have a
>>34' x 53' barn that has 7 foot ceilings on the main floor and I
>> want to
>>raise them up to about 11 feet. The joists are nailed to the
>> rafters on
>>the outside wall and also supported by a 2 beams that run down the
>> middle
>>of the barn. These beams rest on posts that in turn are on
>> concrete pads.
>>If I cut the joist off near the rafter and raise the floor up, the
>> joists
>>will again be more than long enough (because the roof is radiused).
>>So far the best thing I have come up with is to do the ceiling in
>> three
>>sections. The barn is about 34 feet wide and 53 feet long. Each
>>section would be 34 feet wide and just over 18 feet long. Maybe
>> four
>>sections would be a little more manageable.
>>Anyway, I need photos and testimonies on past projects. I have
>> quite a
>>bit of construction experience but I tend to be pretty anal with
>> projects
>>like this so I want to be 100% confident before I start.
>>Thanks in advance,
> This sounds very difficult to do, at least safely. How are the roof
> rafters done? Trusses, or what? You cut out that 'floor' you will
> probably find it is what is holding the building together.
> Why do you need 4 ft more headroom? That's not enough for a lift, for
> example. Also, a garage with 7 ft headroom is not very tall at all,
> I'd be worried that there are/were other problems that will come to
> light later, and cause you all kninds of grief!
> Get a good structural engineer and get professional advice. There is
> no way someone in this group can tell you authoratively what do to...
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Building Construction and Maintenance Forum
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Posted by dpb on January 31, 2009, 12:07 pm
Avon_Jeepman wrote:
...[top posting repaired--dpb]...
> PeterD wrote:
>
...
>> This sounds very difficult to do, at least safely. How are the roof
>> rafters done? Trusses, or what? You cut out that 'floor' you will
>> probably find it is what is holding the building together.
> The the rafters are 1x10 boards nailed together and cut at a radius.
> The radius starts from the top of the cement blocks that the frame
> sits on and continues up to the peak. So I guess the technical term
> would be that they are laminated (just like laminated posts for my
> pole shed).
...
> A Structural Engineer has already told me that the floor being higher
> will actually make the building stronger. Of course I plan to go back
> and make sure I didn't forget something once I figure out the
> mechanics of doing the actual lift. Raising the floor one section at
> a time leaves the end walls and the remaining sections in place as
> well. That should retain the structural integrety of the building.
>
> Anyway, I am looking for input from someone that has actually done
> this or seen this done before. There are several pictures online of
> barns like mine where the entire ceiling has been removed on round
> roof barns like mine. The website shows that customer now uses the
> barn for storing a combine. Anyway, I just want to raise the floor
> up, not remove it entirely and I am sure that there are many that
> have done that before.
...
Well, you didn't say you had a block building... :(
A link to one of those pictures (or even better, to a picture of yours)
would undoubtedly help at least some...
I just looked at it here again a little earlier this morning -- it would
still be a major project here because as noted before the columns aren't
in line so there would have to be significant structural modifications
to change the load bearing locations to transfer that load from upstairs
to the ground.
But, if that weren't a problem (and the bottom walls were block instead
of frame so the side loading isn't such an issue), what I'd do w/ this
one would be to pull up the flooring in the mow and stack it somewhere
out of the way. Then, as another poster noted, I'd simply work my way
down from one end to the other a rafter at a time. Since these side
walls are vertical the joists are attached to the 2x6 studs w/ a
supporting rim joist under them. They could be individually removed,
raised and then the rim joist added last.
In your case what I don't understand from your description would be the
hanging the outer end from the rafter -- that doesn't sound nearly as
strong as the current setting on top a block wall and the added load
will add additional outward load as the force will be transmitted along
the length of the rafter which is, as you say curved pointing out.
What is the construction detail at this point this engineer is
recommending and how does he propose to transfer the new load and hold
the top of the wall?
If it weren't for the column alignment issue raised above, I'd feel far
more comfortable w/ the gambrel roof here than w/ the round roof you
have as I'd only be changing the location vertically, not the direction
of the loading.
I'd want to see engineered drawings and some load calc's before
proceeding but the mechanics once that were done I'd do as outlined--I'd
certainly not attempt to take an entire floor section and raise it as a
piece--simply too much rigging for a one-man effort; that's a
housemover/large construction job way of attacking it imo.
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