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Re: Ice and Water Shield On Porch?

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Re: Ice and Water Shield On Porch? benick 05-24-2007
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Posted by marson on May 29, 2007, 10:45 pm
>
>
>
>
> >> >You bust in and say that because of wind driven
> >> > rain in maine, we should be using ice and water on unheated porches.
> >> > That just doesn't make sense. It's like me busting into a discussion
>
> >> Ice dams are not just the products of heat leaking through roofs. The sun
> >> can (and does) cause ice dams every year on my patio cover (open under.)
> >> While the ice and water backs up, it's no big deal because it's just an
> >> open
> >> patio cover. Point is, if it's your own home, the use of self-adhering
> >> underlayment is simply a good & inexpensive investment. (And if you think
> >> that underlayment is expensive, you probably can't aford to build or
> >> remodel. Protection of the structure is paramount in consideration.
>
> >> >Again, I just have not seen leaks on roofs. I've seen leaks
> >> > from ice dams, and leaks from bad flashing, but on a big simple roof
>
> >> All asphalt roof will eventually leak. It's only a question of time
> >> before
> >> the shingles deteriorate to a point where they will.
>
> >> Even new roofs can leak in a storm. As one responder mentioned, in Maine,
> >> they use the self-adhering type on a regular basis based on experience.
>
> >> As it's not a big expense, I would recommend it's use on all roofs (if
> >> you
> >> never want to worry about leaks. Perhaps it's over kill in many cases,
> >> but
> >> sometimes peace of mind it worth a little extra.)
>
> >> And if you still want to argue about the expense, I'd hate to talk to you
> >> about tile floors or granite countertops. <chuckle>
>
> > Well, I don't know how they are doing things in your part of the
> > country. I live in a town of about 100,000. Since I moved here a few
> > years ago, I have personally supervised 10's of roofs, and have
> > observed probably 100's of reroofs and roofs going on new
> > construction. Every one I have seen gets Ice and water on the eaves
> > and valleys and felt everywhere else. These roofs are working. Why
> > fix what isn't broke? I don't get it. The cost of construction here
> > is out of this world, and adding $1000 to $1500 to the cost of a roof
> > just isn't justified.
>
> $1500?
> You need to find a new supplier.
> Just because it didn't *break* in the 'few years' you've been living there
> means nothing about leaks that may occur eventually.
> Curious, did you ask the homeowners if their roofs leak, as its hard to tell
> if a roof is leaking while *observing* it from the curb?

First of all, the stuff ranges from 25 to 50 bucks a square for the
material. Last I checked, it isn't climbing the ladder and rolling
itself out spontaneously. You're going to have to add some labor for
the installation. If you are in an area where it isn't being used
typically, a roofer is going to charge a premium for the
installation. If you have a big house, it's going to cost you MORE
than 1500.

Why do you think the installation instructions don't call for putting
it on the whole roof? http://www.gaf.com/Content/Documents/20002.pdf
You'd think the manufacturer would want you to cover your whole house
inside and out with two layers if they thought it was a good idea.
Explain that one.



Posted by Dennis on May 30, 2007, 8:08 pm
At our local Menards, the poly face is $34/sq. (3'x33') and the granular
face is $36/sq. (and that's retail).
As far as labor, it would be only a little more, considering you would have
to roll out and fasten down use 15# underlayment anyway. (At least if your
building to code).

If your only installing cheap asphalt shingle roofs (20 year), I would agree
that it's use may be questionable as the roof is probably only going to be
good for 15 years anyway. But for longer-life products (including 30-40 year
asphalt, tile and the like), it's a no-brainier to use it.
For a quality home, a roof is not a place to go cheap.

> First of all, the stuff ranges from 25 to 50 bucks a square for the
> material. Last I checked, it isn't climbing the ladder and rolling
> itself out spontaneously. You're going to have to add some labor for
> the installation. If you are in an area where it isn't being used



Posted by marson on May 30, 2007, 8:26 pm
> At our local Menards, the poly face is $34/sq. (3'x33') and the granular
> face is $36/sq. (and that's retail).
> As far as labor, it would be only a little more, considering you would have
> to roll out and fasten down use 15# underlayment anyway. (At least if your
> building to code).
>
> If your only installing cheap asphalt shingle roofs (20 year), I would agree
> that it's use may be questionable as the roof is probably only going to be
> good for 15 years anyway. But for longer-life products (including 30-40 year
> asphalt, tile and the like), it's a no-brainier to use it.
> For a quality home, a roof is not a place to go cheap.
>
> > First of all, the stuff ranges from 25 to 50 bucks a square for the
> > material. Last I checked, it isn't climbing the ladder and rolling
> > itself out spontaneously. You're going to have to add some labor for
> > the installation. If you are in an area where it isn't being used

And why aren't manufacturers recommending this? They'd sell more
product.

The answer is probably two fold: it has little or no value in
practice, and second, ice and water shield is a vapor barrier, and
unless your ventilation is good, you could wind up with rotted roof
sheathing.

This is not a standard practice. It is not being done in most parts
of the country. Go out and look at some roofs, talk to some roofers
and contractors.



Posted by Don on May 30, 2007, 10:08 pm
"marson"> wrote
> And why aren't manufacturers recommending this? They'd sell more
> product.

How do you know they aren't?
Cause they haven't recommended it to you?

> The answer is probably two fold: it has little or no value in
> practice, and second, ice and water shield is a vapor barrier, and
> unless your ventilation is good, you could wind up with rotted roof
> sheathing.

If a person is *building in accordance with codes* he then has proper
ventilation, right?

> This is not a standard practice. It is not being done in most parts
> of the country.

LOL, *most parts*, huh?
Man, you cover a lot of territory.LOL

Go out and look at some roofs, talk to some roofers
> and contractors.

*Most* contractors are cheapskates.
Its best to get advice from people that have no stake in it.



Posted by marson on May 31, 2007, 7:19 am
> "marson"> wrote
>
> > And why aren't manufacturers recommending this? They'd sell more
> > product.
>
> How do you know they aren't?
> Cause they haven't recommended it to you?

Read the package instructions.



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