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Re: Where does the term "California Roof" come from (historically)?

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Re: Where does the term "California Roof" come from (historically)? ChitaShines 11-07-2006
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Posted by ChitaShines on November 8, 2006, 12:25 pm
On 7 Nov 2006 20:24:44 -0800, RicodJour wrote:
> Upload a picture of your roof to one of those free hosting sites, post
> a link here, and let us - primarily the people on the construction
> newsgroups - take a look. We will be able to tell you exactly what
> sort of roof you have. If you decide to reject the correct
> terminology/classification in favor of a more colorful vernacular,
> well, that's up to you and entirely understandable.
>
> R

Hi there RicodJour,
I don't know how to post my film photographs but I can draw what it looks
like here with a stick diagram.

This is a "normal" roof line.
/\
/ \
/ \
/ \

This is my "California Roof" line.
/\___
/ \ |
/ \ |
/ \ |

Looking at the architectural papers from a few years ago when we were
working on this before a calamity occurred to stop work, the papers said
my "California framed roof" was going to be built in two stages. The first
stage is similar to that above in the "normal" roof line. Then thney were
going to build a SECOND roof right on top of the first!

Is this what people meant by a "gable"?
Why would they put a second roof on top of and almost perpendicular to the
first roof?

I now think the thing that makes it a Californa-framed roof is that the
"rafters" of the second roof are nailed directly to the "plywood" of the
first roof.

Does this make sense to any of you?

Posted by RicodJour on November 8, 2006, 12:41 pm

ChitaShines wrote:
> On 7 Nov:24:44 -0800, RicodJour wrote:
> > Upload a picture of your roof to one of those free hosting sites, post
> > a link here, and let us - primarily the people on the construction
> > newsgroups - take a look. We will be able to tell you exactly what
> > sort of roof you have. If you decide to reject the correct
> > terminology/classification in favor of a more colorful vernacular,
> > well, that's up to you and entirely understandable.
> >
> > R
>
> Hi there RicodJour,
> I don't know how to post my film photographs but I can draw what it looks
> like here with a stick diagram.
>
> This is a "normal" roof line.
> /\
> / \
> / \
> / \
>
> This is my "California Roof" line.
> /\___
> / \ |
> / \ |
> / \ |
>
> Looking at the architectural papers from a few years ago when we were
> working on this before a calamity occurred to stop work, the papers said
> my "California framed roof" was going to be built in two stages. The first
> stage is similar to that above in the "normal" roof line. Then thney were
> going to build a SECOND roof right on top of the first!
>
> Is this what people meant by a "gable"?
> Why would they put a second roof on top of and almost perpendicular to the
> first roof?
>
> I now think the thing that makes it a Californa-framed roof is that the
> "rafters" of the second roof are nailed directly to the "plywood" of the
> first roof.
>
> Does this make sense to any of you?

Yes. In my admittedly meager search pursuant to your quest, I did run
across references to a California roof being a second roof built over
another. No pictures, alas. The description added scant information.
What you seem to have is a framing technique, not a roof
classification. I believe it was Dan who pointed out another
Californian technique for stick-framed corners. There are numerous
references to Californian framing techniques and tools in the building
lexicon.

I think the stumbling block is that building and roof styles do not
frequently refer to framing methods, although there are a few
exceptions. That cross gable (that is the correct term BTW) roof you
have is pretty much the present day standard framing technique for
additions and renovations and it apparently originated in California.

I see no advantage or clarification in calling your roof a California
roof. It muddies the waters and as you've seen from your research is
anything but a standard term.

R


Posted by krw on November 8, 2006, 1:17 pm
chitashines@yahoo.com says...
> On 7 Nov 2006 20:24:44 -0800, RicodJour wrote:
> > Upload a picture of your roof to one of those free hosting sites, post
> > a link here, and let us - primarily the people on the construction
> > newsgroups - take a look. We will be able to tell you exactly what
> > sort of roof you have. If you decide to reject the correct
> > terminology/classification in favor of a more colorful vernacular,
> > well, that's up to you and entirely understandable.
> >
> > R
>
> Hi there RicodJour,
> I don't know how to post my film photographs but I can draw what it looks
> like here with a stick diagram.
>
> This is a "normal" roof line.
> /\
> / \
> / \
> / \

^
|
+--- This is a gabled roof
>
> This is my "California Roof" line.
> /\___
> / \ |
> / \ |
> / \ |
^ ^
| |
| +--- Dormer
|
+---- Gable

>
> Looking at the architectural papers from a few years ago when we were
> working on this before a calamity occurred to stop work, the papers said
> my "California framed roof" was going to be built in two stages. The first
> stage is similar to that above in the "normal" roof line. Then thney were
> going to build a SECOND roof right on top of the first!
>
> Is this what people meant by a "gable"?

A gabled roof is framed in a triangle made from the roof rafters
and floor joists. There is no internal support so the weight is
carried entirely by the external walls..

> Why would they put a second roof on top of and almost perpendicular to the
> first roof?

Perpendicular? Is there a ridge pole going the opposite direction
from the main roof? If so, this is another gable. If it's small
it's often called a gabled dormer. If the back roof is raised and
the back is square it's commonly known as a "shed dormer".

> I now think the thing that makes it a Californa-framed roof is that the
> "rafters" of the second roof are nailed directly to the "plywood" of the
> first roof.

That sounds weak. I'd think you'd want to tie the structural
components together directly.

> Does this make sense to any of you?

Sorta. Seems the terms change across the continent.

--
Keith

Posted by Peter Moylan on November 8, 2006, 2:03 am
[Followups set to a group I don't read. I hope nobody thinks that that
is rude.]

ChitaShines wrote:

> What USENET group SHOULD I post a roofing question to?

Probably the alt.building.construction group. They are the ones most
likely to be expert on the subject.

> (sorry to end in a preposition but I feel that rule is just plain
> silly.)

Don't worry, just about everyone in alt.usage.english agrees with you.
The "rule" about not ending a sentence with a preposition appears to
have been invented by someone who didn't understand how English works.
In your question above, the end of the sentence is the only sensible
place to put your "to".

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org

Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses. The domain
eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer
receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses. The optusnet
address could disappear at any time.

Posted by DanG on November 8, 2006, 7:41 am
I do not know the reference to a "California" roof. There were
many framing short cuts created during the housing boom in
California after WWII. One I do remember is a reference to a
California corner that eliminated a stud in the outside corner
from 3 to 2, a lot of studs over a subdivision.

I still use the term, though I have never worked in California.
___________________________
Keep the whole world singing. . . .
DanG


> On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 14:03:46 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> In the view of at least some of us, referring to a newsgroup as
>> a
>> "Google group" perpetuates a fraud which ought to be exposed at
>> every
>> opportunity.
>
> Hi there Peter Moylan,
> I do thank you for correcting that error on my part. I, as you,
> would love
> to always speak properly. I did not know the difference between
> a "google"
> group and a usenet group.
>
> I looked up on google the difference and it seems that there was
> the usenet
> before there was the web and a dejaview company was taken over
> by google
> and now the usenet is archived only on dejaview and will cost us
> money in
> the future (according to some) because google is gaining content
> at our
> expense, so to speak. I learned a lot just looking up that
> easy-to-find
> history but the California Roof lookup failed me so far.
>
> That's partly my quest here. I hear everyone bandy about the
> fact that I
> have a California Roof (is it "the fact I" or "the fact that
> I"?) but my
> roof really doesn't seem to look (to me) any different than all
> the roofs
> around me. I just don't get it.
>
> Everyone around here intrinsically seems to feel they know what
> a
> California Roof is - but nobody I asked seems to be able to
> explain it to
> me. Even the government publications don't seem to list what it
> is. Those
> web sites that do list what they think it is, conflict with some
> other web
> site. Is there a canonical web site for roof definitions?
>
> I'd really like to know why my roof is called a California Roof
> versus
> being called a low-pitch roof or a split-gable roof or a
> varied-taper roof
> which is not put on straight (shouldn't it be straightly?).
>
> As to the groups to post to, (I presume I am the OP based on a
> lookup of
> that term (is it "look up" or "lookup"?) I was very unsure of
> whom to post
> to because my newsreader only allows three groups at a time so
> that's why
> there is a post to the builders separately from the homeowners.
>
> What USENET group SHOULD I post a roofing question to?
> (sorry to end in a preposition but I feel that rule is just
> plain silly.)



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