Removing a 9' load bearing wall

Posted by MDA on October 5, 2008, 4:39 am

I'd like to remove a load bearing internal wall by putting a beam in the
attic and attaching it to the ceiling joists from above.

I know this was general topic was discussed in April of 2008.
"Dave in Houston" posted URL's for some pictures. They're gone.
Can someone show me how this has been done before?

The wall is on the upper floor of a 2-story home.
The wall is near the center of the house, approx 9' long.
The roof does not bear on the wall.
The wall supports 2x6 ceiling joists, 1/2 inch ceiling sheetrock, and
attic insulation. That's all.

The attic is pretty accessible. I can put a beam up there, assemble it,
and attach it.

I'm very interested in advice about sizing the beam and attaching it to
the joists. I'd like to see what has worked for someone else.

I'm officially an engineer, so I understand the need to provide support
all the way to the foundation. No problem.

Thanks for your help!
-- Mark

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Posted by DanG on October 5, 2008, 8:19 am

Simple rule of thumb - nominal lumber size when doubled as a
header = span. So, a double 2x6 will span 6 feet. Your opening
will require double 2x10. 15" pieces of 2x2 can be installed
vertically to that the top is nailed to your new 2x10 and the
bottom is nailed to the 2x6. Repeat for all 2x6 involved. As you
have noted, solid block the ends of the 2x10s and add studs as
required.

If it will make you feel better, here is a header span table from
the Southern Pine institute:
http://newstore.southernpine.com/cgi-bin/newsopine/product?;5;

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)
dgriff237@7cox.net

> I'd like to remove a load bearing internal wall by putting a
> beam in the
> attic and attaching it to the ceiling joists from above.
> I know this was general topic was discussed in April of 2008.
> "Dave in Houston" posted URL's for some pictures. They're gone.
> Can someone show me how this has been done before?
> The wall is on the upper floor of a 2-story home.
> The wall is near the center of the house, approx 9' long.
> The roof does not bear on the wall.
> The wall supports 2x6 ceiling joists, 1/2 inch ceiling
> sheetrock, and
> attic insulation. That's all.
> The attic is pretty accessible. I can put a beam up there,
> assemble it,
> and attach it.
> I'm very interested in advice about sizing the beam and
> attaching it to
> the joists. I'd like to see what has worked for someone else.
> I'm officially an engineer, so I understand the need to provide
> support
> all the way to the foundation. No problem.
> Thanks for your help!
> -- Mark
> -------------------------------------
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> Delivered via http://www.thestuccocompany.com/
> Building Construction and Maintenance Forum
> Web and RSS access to your favorite newsgroup -
> alt.building.construction - 14658 messages and counting!
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>

Posted by MDA on October 6, 2008, 1:45 pm

MDA had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/construction/Re-Removing-a-9-load-bearing-wall-15382-.htm
:
Thank-you!

This is much simpler than the alternative system of cutting the ends off
joists, installing a beam, and atttaching joists with joist hangers.

What do you recommend for number of nails, size of nails, and spacing of
nails?

-- Mark
mda53226(at)yahoo(dot)com

-------------------------------------
DanG wrote:

> Simple rule of thumb - nominal lumber size when doubled as a
> header = span. So, a double 2x6 will span 6 feet. Your opening
> will require double 2x10. 15" pieces of 2x2 can be installed
> vertically to that the top is nailed to your new 2x10 and the
> bottom is nailed to the 2x6. Repeat for all 2x6 involved. As you
> have noted, solid block the ends of the 2x10s and add studs as
> required.

> If it will make you feel better, here is a header span table from
> the Southern Pine institute:
> http://newstore.southernpine.com/cgi-bin/newsopine/product?;5;

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Posted by dpb on October 6, 2008, 1:59 pm

MDA wrote:
...

> This is much simpler than the alternative system of cutting the ends off
> joists, installing a beam, and atttaching joists with joist hangers.
>
> What do you recommend for number of nails, size of nails, and spacing of
> nails?

...
Not really, all it does is switch the order of things...

The problem is still there's not enough information to ensure you've
accounted for the loading correctly but _assuming_ your assessment of
the structure's integrity is close (but asking these questions here
makes one wonder), it's still hanging the joists and hangers would still
be the better solution. But, I'd still recommend you get a professional
opinion on the actual situation before proceeding, engineer or no--you
obviously are something other than civil/structural/architectural in
specialization. (As am I, so that's not a slam...)

--

Posted by mda on October 7, 2008, 12:32 am

mda had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/construction/Re-Removing-a-9-load-bearing-wall-15385-.htm
:
Thanks, dpb --

You're right, I'm a mechanical engineer. I work in the world of steel and
plastics. I'm not familiar with estimating the strength of a nailed joint
in wood.

Was thinking there must be a rule-of-thumb for estimating the strength of
a 2x2 nailed to a 2x10. . . and a guideline for nail size and spacing to
get a good joint without weakening the wood.

Was also thinking it would be good to apply glue to the 2x2's before
nailing. The glue joint would carry the loaded with shear stress, and
glue is very strong in that direction.

I'm not totally clueless. Am simply asking questions to collect the best
ideas before developing a plan. (The "expert" at the building supply
store told me I could only put a beam UNDER the ceiling. There is no way
to put it above the ceiling. You folks are proving him wrong.) I came
here to ask because Google suggested this was a good place to get opinions.

-- Mark

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